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Message
1
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:00 am to cwill
quote:
You should never change your avatar, it fits your posts.
Hey, he was the Director of the TV program.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:04 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
I don't necessarily mean an Israel/West Bank type of border. Possibly more dedicated drone surveillance and increased patrols. The fence is probably not feasible and can be undermined easily. Basically, we would just have to decided to spend more money on it.
In my opinion, doing things like securing the border is emphatically a role of the government and a valid use of tax dollars. I would support more spending in this area if it proves effective.
Understood. There is more we can do to better control and monitor traffic across the border, but secure is secure. And not secure is not secure. If we've learned anything from economic history it is that goods and services will find their way to markets where there's demand. There is a demand for cheap, hardworking, Mexicano labor in this country. Barring a true fortification of the border, it will make its way here.
But we're just jerking off here, because our trade relationship with Mexico is worth half a trillion dollars annually. That requires a freedom of movement that is going to preclude anything resembling a "secure" border.
What are you views on an amendment overhauling the 14th? I honestly think the demographic shift is already too dramatic to reverse, but is it still worth considering?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:05 am to Zach
quote:You think it's possible to efficiently move that amount of product through a no-shite secured border?
They won't stop trading. They need stuff.
ETA: And it's one of our more balanced relationships. We actually sell about $220B worth of our shite to them.
This post was edited on 12/9/14 at 11:08 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:16 am to Navytiger74
A simple study of human geography would help some of you understand why people migrate, illegally or otherwise. As proof throughout history, these people immigrate predominantly for economic reasons, and work jobs many Americans are "too good" to take on.
This country's borders have been open since its existence. There are more horrible atrocities happening around us in our own demographic every single day, than the issue of immigration.
If they are legit, tax paying citizens, I could care less.
This country's borders have been open since its existence. There are more horrible atrocities happening around us in our own demographic every single day, than the issue of immigration.
If they are legit, tax paying citizens, I could care less.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:16 am to Navytiger74
quote:
What are you views on an amendment overhauling the 14th? I honestly think the demographic shift is already too dramatic to reverse, but is it still worth considering?
Nah, I'm not touching the 14th. Too much has been protected by incorporation. Any overhaul would necessarily open it back up. I shudder to think of what the electorate, with the attention span of a gnat, would allow their representatives to replace it with. There is more good in there now than bad, in my opinion.
If I had more faith in us/our representatives, then yes, I would say it's time to overhaul the 14th. The main purpose of it is no longer needed and we keep it because of the lagniappe.
This post was edited on 12/9/14 at 11:17 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:27 am to Navytiger74
quote:
You think it's possible to efficiently move that amount of product through a no-shite secured border?
1. You don't land mine the roads. The illegals are coming over land. That's what you mine and make sure you post signs.
2. No one will die. We don't know of any illegal immigrants who are suicidal.
3. It's cheap...for nearly 100 years mines have proven to be the most cost effective way to secure a border.
4. Deportation is easy. Currently we catch illegals in the US all the time. Problem is we:
a. Don't deport them. Just tell them to report back to court and they don't.
b. We deport them and they come back.
A. is easy to fix. Deport them all as soon as caught.
B. is fixed. They cannot return with land mines installed.
So, eventually, all of them will be deported.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:29 am to CoachDon
quote:
If they are legit, tax paying citizens, I could care less.
Illegal aliens are something like 20 times more likely to commit crime than Americans. In some Calif prisons the majority of the inmates are illegal aliens.
They are not 'legit' by definition. They do not pay taxes by definition.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:32 am to Zach
quote:
Illegal aliens are something like 20 times more likely to commit crime than Americans. In some Calif prisons the majority of the inmates are illegal aliens. They are not 'legit' by definition. They do not pay taxes by definition.
Understood Sir. Hence the "If". I'm for legitimizing people gaining access to the U.S. - not harboring illegals.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:33 am to CoachDon
I agree. I'm very in favor of legal immigration from Mexico. My DIL is a legal Mexican.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:36 am to Zach
quote:
I agree. I'm very in favor of legal immigration from Mexico. My DIL is a legal Mexican.
Do you have any problem with the fact that a regular Mexican with no family ties to the US, no specialized degree and skill, and no significant financial resources is basically unable to immigrate? I'm not implying that you should have a problem with it, just curious. A lot of people think there is an Ellis Island "line" somewhere that anyone can wait in.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:45 am to Zach
quote:
1. You don't land mine the roads. The illegals are coming over land. That's what you mine and make sure you post signs.
Well mining the border is a ridiculous idea, but let's say we do.
There's a market for Mexican labor. That labor will move across the border, as it always has. If traditional routes are choked off, they'll adjust. I imagine that more will be expended checking and securing the authorized land routes and legal and illicit maritime points of arrival than we'll spend on the wall and mines. It will slow the flow of illegals, but I don't see how it doesn't impact the movement of goods as well.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:46 am to Zach
quote:
2. No one will die. We don't know of any illegal immigrants who are suicidal.
people will most certainly die. They are going to try to get across even with land mines. And then drugs.
It certainly goes against the current state of international affaris around land mines. 155 counties have signed the Ottawa Treaty, which bans land mines. The US didn't sign it b.c they want an exception for the already mined DMZ in korea.
Not to mention, it would infringe on property rights of land owners. There is no DMZ.
quote:
4. Deportation is easy. Currently we catch illegals in the US all the time. Problem is we:
a. Don't deport them. Just tell them to report back to court and they don't.
b. We deport them and they come back.
Deportation is not easy though. We have to process them, store them and pay for their transport. We don't want a country that deports people that are citizens, so some effort must be made to prove that they are here without documentation. For immigrants this would be relatively easy, but a mexican american citizen? What are they supposed to do carry around their passport everywhere they go?
Its feasible to be more aggressive on deportation but its going to cost more money than you think.
The land mine thing would probably deter immigration overland but would have costs associated with international trade, reputation, and treaties. Plus it would piss mexico the frick off.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:46 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
What do you want to see happen with immigration?
Current law enforcement and zero benefits for illegal immigrants. This is the only thing that will stop the ongoing influx of illegal immigration.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:49 am to davesdawgs
quote:
Current law enforcement and zero benefits for illegal immigrants. This is the only thing that will stop the ongoing influx of illegal immigration.
So would you recommend that every removable alien in the country be removed? What about the countless visa overstays, who did not enter illegally but were supposed to leave?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:53 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
Do you have any problem with the fact that a regular Mexican with no family ties to the US, no specialized degree and skill, and no significant financial resources is basically unable to immigrate?
No. No problem with it. It's the same in every other nation on the planet. No one allows open borders.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:56 am to Zach
quote:
No. No problem with it. It's the same in every other nation on the planet. No one allows open borders.
I tend to agree. I just tire of people parroting the "get in line and wait your turn" rhetoric. Even for people with immediate family members, the wait is often 10-12 years. We need to just acknowledge that not everyone can come.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 11:56 am to Navytiger74
quote:
There's a market for Mexican labor
It will not exist when we abolish welfare. That's part of my solution.
quote:
That labor will move across the border, as it always has. If traditional routes are choked off, they'll adjust. I imagine that more will be expended checking and securing the authorized land routes and legal and illicit maritime points of arrival than we'll spend on the wall and mines.
No walls needed. Land mines don't require walls. Highway checkpoints are cheap compared to border agents trying to comb the entire landscape. Mines only cost 4 dollars.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 12:01 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
They are going to try to get across even with land mines.
No, they won't. The historical use of landmines proves this.
quote:
Not to mention, it would infringe on property rights of land owners
Landowners are the ones complaining the most about illegals. The DMZ can be very thin...just very long. If a landowner has 100 acres we only need a 2 yard strip.
quote:
Deportation is not easy though. We have to process them, store them and pay for their transport.
It's extremely easy. We are currently under orders to release them. You detain the person, ask for documentation. If there is none, you send them back on the next bus.
quote:
but a mexican american citizen?
A mexican american citizen has an address and a social security number. My cleaning lady is one.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 12:02 pm to Zach
quote:
Illegal aliens are something like 20 times more likely to commit crime than Americans.
Link it.
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