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Started By
Message
re: U.S. Chamber of Commerce President Tom Donohue is livid. Re: NAFTA
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:24 pm to GumboPot
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:24 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Agreement has turned increasingly acrimonious. Mexico accuses U.S. President Donald Trump of spoiling for a “protectionist war” with proposals aimed at balancing trade.
Number one reason he was elected.
quote:
Mexico is a key partner of the United States in fighting drug trafficking and stemming illegal immigration across the U.S. southern border.
Color me unimpressed with this partnership.
quote:
The Mexican peso weakened for the fifth straight session on Tuesday amid the increased tensions, and hit its weakest level against the dollar since early June.
Wonder who's winning.
quote:
He also slammed the emphasis placed by the White House on reducing the U.S. trade deficit.
Let's me know my suspicions that he is a douche are correct!
quote:
Trump has repeatedly threatened to withdraw if he does not win concessions to reduce a U.S. trade deficit of around $64 billion with Mexico.
Keeping campaign promises. A very rare GOP quality these days!
0
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:26 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:Well I would recommend you not dwelling on the uncontrollable past and focusing on the controllable present and future, but whatever works for you.
I'll let my 3 brothers and 2 sisters that worked for Mead Paper Co until 2001, that their jobs were doomed regardless if NAFTA existed or not.
quote:Well I guess the 4th generation will not be working there then, of course I would have guessed that about a paper business anyways.
They had the pleasure of training their Mexican replacements and then got to help tear down the production equipment, put it on pallets, load it on flat bed rail cars and wave goodbye to 3 generations of employment for our family.
quote:Well I can't imagine that the demand for paper is going anywhere but south, so one would think that they would have lowered prices a bit. But Dunder-Mifflin Scranton Branch aside, one business I wouldn't want to be in, is the paper businesses.
Mead cut their production costs over 50% but the price of their products didn't drop one penny.
But thanks for your anecdote that conveniently ignores this past of my post:
quote:So if you're going to talk to your siblings, try not to forget I said that it exacerbated it again.
So cheap, outsourced labor likely exacerbated it,
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 6:28 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:36 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
Mead cut their production costs over 50% but the price of their products didn't drop one penny.
That’s why the argument that it’s good for the customer is mostly a farce. The number one goal in business is profits.
If they can lower the cost of goods by moving to another country and exfiltrate American profits they will do it in a heartbeat. That’s what has been happening for 30+ years.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:41 pm to GumboPot
I don't suppose that any quality link or data supporting what the other guy said about Mead or what op claims "has been happening for 30+ years" with prices will be forthcoming
I've been surprised before though
I've been surprised before though
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:48 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:I don't know about all that, but I've found these data compelling.
I don't suppose that any quality link or data supporting what the other guy said about Mead or what op claims "has been happening for 30+ years" with prices will be forthcoming
I've been surprised before though
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 6:50 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:55 pm to GumboPot
As long as the Chamber types make their profits they don’t give a damn about what happens to the future of this nation or everyday people. They love the illegal immigration for the cheap labor.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:00 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
I don't know about all that, but I've found these data compelling.
Is “energy” in that manufacturing equation?
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:06 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
quote:
I'll let my 3 brothers and 2 sisters that worked for Mead Paper Co until 2001, that their jobs were doomed regardless if NAFTA existed or not.
Well I would recommend you not dwelling on the uncontrollable past and focusing on the controllable present and future, but whatever works for you.
quote:
They had the pleasure of training their Mexican replacements and then got to help tear down the production equipment, put it on pallets, load it on flat bed rail cars and wave goodbye to 3 generations of employment for our family.
Well I guess the 4th generation will not be working there then, of course I would have guessed that about a paper business anyways.
quote:
Mead cut their production costs over 50% but the price of their products didn't drop one penny.
Well I can't imagine that the demand for paper is going anywhere but south, so one would think that they would have lowered prices a bit. But Dunder-Mifflin Scranton Branch aside, one business I wouldn't want to be in, is the paper businesses.
But thanks for your anecdote that conveniently ignores this past of my post:
quote:
So cheap, outsourced labor likely exacerbated it,
So if you're going to talk to your siblings, try not to forget I said that it exacerbated it again.
Who's dwelling on the past dipshit? The family's moved on just like the plant did. The cogent point of the post was NAFTA was the primary reason that MEAD moved production to Mexico, for cheap labor and less stringent environmental laws.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:07 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Mexico is a key partner of the United States in fighting drug trafficking and stemming illegal immigration across the U.S. southern border
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:10 pm to Bass Tiger
quote:
Who's dwelling on the past dipshit?
quote:2017 is present, so 2001 is past.
I'll let my 3 brothers and 2 sisters that worked for Mead Paper Co until 2001, that their jobs were doomed regardless if NAFTA existed or not.
quote:Good. That's what I hoped for.
The family's moved on just like the plant did.
quote:And I said NAFTA exacerbated it, but I also wonder if a place like Mead would have just closed up otherwise.
The cogent point of the post was NAFTA was the primary reason that MEAD moved production to Mexico,
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:12 pm to GumboPot
quote:I don't know what you mean by energy, but here are the BLS job industries and sectors. So hopefully this answers your question.
Is “energy” in that manufacturing equation?
Employees on nonfarm payrolls by industry sector and selected industry detail, seasonally adjusted
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:12 pm to buckeye_vol
That chart says things are great from a production stand point but what about American jobs? That’s the political issue.
That chart is great for the 1%ers, sucks for the little guy. That’s what Trump is tapping into.
LINK
That chart is great for the 1%ers, sucks for the little guy. That’s what Trump is tapping into.
LINK
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:18 pm to AU86
quote:
As long as the Chamber types make their profits they don’t give a damn about what happens to the future of this nation or everyday people. They love the illegal immigration for the cheap labor.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce credits NAFTA with increasing U.S. trade in goods and services with Canada and Mexico from $337 billion in 1993 to $1.2 trillion in 2011, while the AFL-CIO blames the agreement for sending 700,000 American manufacturing jobs to Mexico over that time.[48]
University of California, San Diego, economics professor Gordon Hanson has said that NAFTA helped the U.S. compete against China and therefore saved U.S. jobs.[49][50] While some jobs were lost to Mexico as a result of NAFTA, considerably more would have been lost to China if not for NAFTA.[49][50]
This is where the "corporate elites" think the American people are clueless about their push with assistance from the Federal government to industrialize China and Mexico to maximize their profits. Without the help of the US both China and Mexico would be 20-30 years behind on industrialization.
It's all part of globalization and the people who implement these policies don't give a rat's arse. They consider themselves citizens of the world, because they can do what they want, live where they want, frick nationalism, and frick you worker bees.
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 7:19 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:19 pm to GumboPot
only two pages in, and already linking everyone's favorite union thinktank
that report doesn't even target NAFTA, although i appreciate the clarification gained from you directly endorsing a report that states in its title that trade is "the culprit"
that report doesn't even target NAFTA, although i appreciate the clarification gained from you directly endorsing a report that states in its title that trade is "the culprit"
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:21 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Mexico is a key partner of the United States in fighting drug trafficking and stemming illegal immigration across the U.S. southern border.
What is this a joke, the Mexican Government is the Drug Trade
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:23 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Mexico accuses U.S. President Donald Trump of spoiling for a “protectionist war” with proposals aimed at balancing trade
Well, of course they think so.
If you've been in on a sweetheart deal, you certainly wouldn't want someone coming in with the aim of balanced trade, now would you?
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:24 pm to Mulat
I think you mean the drug trade is the Mexican government.
They’re butt puppets of the cartels, not vice versa.
They’re butt puppets of the cartels, not vice versa.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:25 pm to GumboPot
quote:What about them? They've decreased while output and productivity increased. Clearly they are becoming less of a necessity and have been replaced by more productive means.
That chart says things are great from a production stand point but what about American jobs?
quote:And what is politics going to do about it? Make companies forgoe technology and innovation and hire workers instead?
That’s the political issue.
quote:So what? If humans aren't as productive as other means, then we can either whine about it, or focus elsewhere where we have more value. They aren't entitled to a job. . Just like those minimum wage workers who demand a living wage, they aren't entitled to a job or set wage. And they can't whine when technology replaces them, especially when they hasten it.
That chart is great for the 1%ers, sucks for the little guy.
quote:OK. That's why I pointed I cited trends here in America. The trends are obvious. Trump can tap into it all he wants, but a leader would focus on tapping into substantive solutions not ideas that are a temporary band aid to appease some emotional reminiscing.
That’s what Trump is tapping into.
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 7:28 pm
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:26 pm to Bass Tiger
for your viewing pleasure:
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:27 pm to GumboPot
Hes lining his coffer with mexican paseos so everytime the value drops it makes him upset.
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