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To shoot or not to shoot looters, from the police standpoint
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:50 am
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:50 am
To shoot - would put a big dent in the destruction of private business property. Downside - more bad pr for police.
Not to shoot - private property is prone to more destruction sans police enforcement because of their hands being tied for tolerance. Downside - letting thugs dictate the rule and the enforcement of law.
How long before the public and police cross that red line and say "we have had enough"? Is one thug's life in the heat of the moment of looting worth more than one man's lifetime dream of owning a business?
Not to shoot - private property is prone to more destruction sans police enforcement because of their hands being tied for tolerance. Downside - letting thugs dictate the rule and the enforcement of law.
How long before the public and police cross that red line and say "we have had enough"? Is one thug's life in the heat of the moment of looting worth more than one man's lifetime dream of owning a business?
This post was edited on 12/8/14 at 8:57 am
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:51 am to Homesick Tiger
If it's your property, then shoot
If it's not your property, don't shoot
If it's not your property, don't shoot
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:55 am to Homesick Tiger
Are you talking about cops or private citizens? Because cops shouldn't have to cross that line. They can apprehend looters and take them off to jail. I think that private citizens have very few rights to detain anymore.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:57 am to Homesick Tiger
This is Obama/Holder's worst nightmare. Book it...any citizen that goes *vigilante* on those poor, misguided and lost-life's-lottery 'children' like Brown, Trayvon, et al....will have the wrath of the DOJ on their arse.
This will only happen - and be tolerated - in defense of life and limb; and not re property. Of course, it's get iffy, when life and limb are put on the line in defense of property.
This will only happen - and be tolerated - in defense of life and limb; and not re property. Of course, it's get iffy, when life and limb are put on the line in defense of property.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:58 am to Homesick Tiger
You can defend your own property.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:59 am to Homesick Tiger
This is a very tough question to answer.
Our society, culture and laws have evolved away from approval of killing people in order to protect mere property.
As such, anybody who kills looters, even if the looters have broken the windows, are in the store, and are actively grabbing stuff off of the shelves, may have a tough journey through the criminal justice system.
A store owner who killed some looters in the store would probably have to submit to police questioning, hire a criminal defense attorney, and sweat out the prosecutorial decision, not to mention Eric Holder's federal civil rights inquiry.
It might not be worth the effort.
If your store is in a "Loot Danger Zone", wouldn't it be better to pre-plan for the possibility that your store could be looted and destroyed, rather the rely on old-fashioned gun violence?
Our society, culture and laws have evolved away from approval of killing people in order to protect mere property.
As such, anybody who kills looters, even if the looters have broken the windows, are in the store, and are actively grabbing stuff off of the shelves, may have a tough journey through the criminal justice system.
A store owner who killed some looters in the store would probably have to submit to police questioning, hire a criminal defense attorney, and sweat out the prosecutorial decision, not to mention Eric Holder's federal civil rights inquiry.
It might not be worth the effort.
If your store is in a "Loot Danger Zone", wouldn't it be better to pre-plan for the possibility that your store could be looted and destroyed, rather the rely on old-fashioned gun violence?
Posted on 12/8/14 at 8:59 am to mmcgrath
quote:
mmcgrath
I amended the title. Thanks.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:02 am to Homesick Tiger
I'm not pulling a trigger to protect someone's property. I don't feel bad for anyone who is shot looting though.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:06 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
I amended the title. Thanks.
quote:In that case, absolutely not. They have enough resources to simply arrest them.
To shoot or not to shoot looters, from the police standpoint
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:13 am to mmcgrath
quote:
They have enough resources to simply arrest them.
But as long as you're just afraid of getting arrested as opposed to getting shot, where is the deterrent not to loot? I know you don't have the answer but what percentage of looters get arrested? That's an answer we'll never know.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:13 am to Champagne
quote:
f your store is in a "Loot Danger Zone", wouldn't it be better to pre-plan for the possibility that your store could be looted and destroyed, rather the rely on old-fashioned gun violence?
Why in hell - in America - do we allow "loot danger zones" to exist??
If I go to my store to protect my property - required because the police will not do it - and if someone breaks my storefront with a crowbar and enters my store to steal my stuff, what am I to do?
I will shoot his goddam arse - that's what I will do.
Screw Blasio and Obama and Holder and Sharpton - all race hustlers of the highest order.
Notice I didn't say I'd shoot the SOB if he was black - I'd shoot a red-headed freckle-faced Scotsman breaking into my store with a crowbar.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:17 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
If I go to my store to protect my property - required because the police will not do it - and if someone breaks my storefront with a crowbar and enters my store to steal my stuff, what am I to do?
Shoot him.
But if you're a trained LEO on the job, you should be able to apprehend the looter without killing him. If not, what makes them different from regular citizens?
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:21 am to ChineseBandit58
You have no right to defend property with lethal force. You must be in fear for your life or serious bodily injury. Some states create a presumption of this with castle laws.
Before shooting at a looter, you would need to take a hard look at your state's laws regarding justifiable homicide.
Before shooting at a looter, you would need to take a hard look at your state's laws regarding justifiable homicide.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:25 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
You have no right to defend property with lethal force.
If this is true then
quote:
You must be in fear for your life or serious bodily injury
Would be all the reasoning one would need to blast away.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:28 am to Homesick Tiger
I would like to think that all police officers and rational, moral citizens view the use of lethal force as a last resort.
But I guess we all know that's bullshite.
But I guess we all know that's bullshite.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:29 am to Homesick Tiger
Hey, I personally think you should be able to defend property with lethal force. It's just that a determined prosecutor is going to make your life hell for years.
Then, when that is over, a skilled plaintiff's attorney will be after you.
Then, when that is over, a skilled plaintiff's attorney will be after you.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:36 am to Tigerlaff
quote:
I personally think you should be able to defend property with lethal force.
Why? Assuming you do not fear for your safety or the safety of others, why would you take a life over something that can be replaced? Is it principle? If so, do you think it appropriate for private citizens to mete out justice? Is is some pent-up rage? Frustration with the constraints of civilization? Feelings of impotence? Actual impotence?
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:42 am to Navytiger74
quote:
Assuming you do not fear for your safety or the safety of others, why would you take a life over something that can be replaced? Is it principle? If so, do you think it appropriate for private citizens to mete out justice? Is is some pent-up rage? Frustration with the constraints of civilization? Feelings of impotence? Actual impotence?
If I am in my store in the midst of a riot and a thug breaks thru with a crowbar, why would I not be in fear for my life or safety?
I should not be required to allow the thug to preen around and take a few swings that merely hurt me a little - to hell with that.
No - if I were to drive up on a peaceful Sunday and find someone stealing a potted plant from the front of the store I would not feel compelled to kill him.
In my view - anyone participating in a riot is already on shaky ground when it comes to my perceptions of safety = it is a foregone conclusion that they are going to try to hurt me if I try to protect my own stuff.
And I don;t care if the fricks are black or white, Mr Blasio.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:45 am to Homesick Tiger
I've got a solution for business owners to deter looters.
Bird shot, #7.5, #8. It's not lethal unless shot from close range, and I promise you the looters would leave after being peppered with it.
Get on the roof of your business with a shotgun and pepper anyone who approaches your business, problem solved. No one dies, and your business isn't looted and burned.
Bird shot, #7.5, #8. It's not lethal unless shot from close range, and I promise you the looters would leave after being peppered with it.
Get on the roof of your business with a shotgun and pepper anyone who approaches your business, problem solved. No one dies, and your business isn't looted and burned.
Posted on 12/8/14 at 9:50 am to Homesick Tiger
There should be a law that anyone caught looting is inelgible for governmental assistance of any kind the rest of their miserable lives. No other nation experiences looting by its citizens. Looting exemplifies the Pussificafion of America, IMO.
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