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The money supply is shrinking

Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:43 am
Posted by stout
Smoking Crack with Hunter Biden
Member since Sep 2006
167756 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:43 am
Which was needed to slow inflation but the question is if this is too much too fast. I am asking for those that know more about this stuff than the rest of us. Where do you see this going?












quote:

@elonmusk

The data with which the Federal Reserve is making decisions has too much latency



Is Elon wrong here?
This post was edited on 4/27/23 at 8:47 am
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
96770 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:44 am to
Part of how we got here is that the Fed has been taking dumb actions for years with the hopes of kicking the can down the road.

Problem is that the road eventually hits a dead end.
Posted by DarthRebel
Tier Five is Alive
Member since Feb 2013
21363 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:45 am to
Where did it go? This is not my expertise area
Posted by stout
Smoking Crack with Hunter Biden
Member since Sep 2006
167756 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:47 am to
quote:

Problem is that the road eventually hits a dead end.


I am surprised they have been able to stretch it for this long. I suspected shite to hit the fan months ago.
Posted by Gifman
Member since Jan 2021
9771 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:48 am to
quote:

Where did it go?


Up Hunter’s nose
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:48 am to
quote:

Is Elon wrong


My go to answer is probably no
Posted by Lou Pai
Member since Dec 2014
28187 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:50 am to
The chart is for year over year growth. I would be more curious to see just a chart of M2 supply over time.
Posted by stout
Smoking Crack with Hunter Biden
Member since Sep 2006
167756 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:52 am to
quote:

I would be more curious to see just a chart of M2 supply over time.




This?



Posted by lowspark12
nashville, tn
Member since Aug 2009
22373 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:52 am to
quote:

I am surprised they have been able to stretch it for this long. I suspected shite to hit the fan months ago.


US monetary policy doesn’t happen in a vacuum… fortunately (or unfortunately for sentiment on this board), the US is still the safest, most secure place to park your money… until that changes, we will chug along with ups and downs.
Posted by mwade91383
Washington DC
Member since Mar 2010
5693 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:53 am to
Quantitative tightening, bonds mostly.
Posted by Aubie Spr96
lolwut?
Member since Dec 2009
41310 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:56 am to
quote:

I am surprised they have been able to stretch it for this long. I suspected shite to hit the fan months ago.



The Federal Reserve is akin to the Climate Change folks. They are intervening into a system so complex that there is no possible way for them to understand it or control it.
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
25345 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:57 am to
quote:

Where did it go? This is not my expertise area


That's a complex question but to help you have a basic understanding, in economic systems with lending elements there is something called a money multiplier. A simple example will help to illustrate it.

DarthRebel is in a two person economic system and has $10.
He puts the $10 in the bank. The bank is required to actually hold in reserve 30% of the deposit in this example, $3
The bank lends out to your evil twin $7. The total amount of the money supply is now $17. You have $10 on the books with the bank, your evil twin has $7. The money supply was multiplied by the lending action.

That's a very, very basic illustration of how the money supply grows and is calculated. To shrink it, you can increase the reserve amount, raise the cost of lending, or do several other systemic actions that will lower the money multiplier, the acutal money supply, or both.

In this case, the decrease is likely tied to many, many variables, but the tightening is designed to head off inflation. The easiest action to see is the raising of the fed funds rate over the past few years. Hope that helps just a bit.
Posted by wutangfinancial
Treasure Valley
Member since Sep 2015
11274 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:59 am to
Uhh yeah he's spot on. The OER takes like 2 years for prices to flow through CPI it's absurd. All of the other components take a full year.

The problem is they will use whatever metric conforms to their narrative so the data driven mantra is complete B.S. in the first place. They're aren't a data driven institution.
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
25345 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 8:59 am to
quote:

The chart is for year over year growth. I would be more curious to see just a chart of M2 supply over time.


LP, I thought I read a couple years back that the Fed no longer (at least publicly) tracks the money supply data. Did they reverse course on this, did I misunderstand what was being communicated, or is the money supply just being tracked by non-Fed entities using the best data available (or something else)?
Posted by Vacherie Saint
Member since Aug 2015
39678 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:00 am to
we gave it all to Zelensky?
Posted by mwade91383
Washington DC
Member since Mar 2010
5693 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:01 am to
quote:

That's a complex question but to help you have a basic understanding, in economic systems with lending elements there is something called a money multiplier. A simple example will help to illustrate it.

DarthRebel is in a two person economic system and has $10.
He puts the $10 in the bank. The bank is required to actually hold in reserve 30% of the deposit in this example, $3
The bank lends out to your evil twin $7. The total amount of the money supply is now $17. You have $10 on the books with the bank, your evil twin has $7. The money supply was multiplied by the lending action.

That's a very, very basic illustration of how the money supply grows and is calculated. To shrink it, you can increase the reserve amount, raise the cost of lending, or do several other systemic actions that will lower the money multiplier, the acutal money supply, or both.

In this case, the decrease is likely tied to many, many variables, but the tightening is designed to head off inflation. The easiest action to see is the raising of the fed funds rate over the past few years. Hope that helps just a bit.


I majored in econ, for a generic simplified explanation, this is well done!
Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
25345 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:04 am to
I appreciate that. It would be hard for me to give a real good explanation of it in the time I'm willing to put into it that would be helpful.

Now I'm just waiting for Darth to come back and say "Thanks, but, actually, I'm Bill Poole. I was just trolling."
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
119320 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:05 am to
quote:

The chart is for year over year growth.


Growth rate is the key issue. When M2 growth rate goes negative liquidity becomes a major issue.

Historically the way out is war. War allows politicians to sell the concept of more spending which leads to more Federal Reserve money printing (bond buying). War has traditionally been politically palpable reason to spend more (albeit the pandemic was unprecedented).

Ed Dowd explains it:

Ed Dowd Explains How M2 Went Negative In 2022 For The 5th Time Ever And What That Means.

Ed Dowd: "Were in a crisis, and the crisis is now starting to manifest in bank failures."

On a side note, it's the reason the Pentagon and the DC Uniparty are very happy Tucker is gone. Tucker was a massive critic of the Ukraine war and was a major impediment to politicians like Lindsay Graham selling war. Permanent Washington, including the bankers, need Ukraine war as a precursor to WWIII (which will likely include continued fighting with Russia in Ukraine, conflict with China via Taiwan, conflict in the ME with Syria and now conflict in Sudan).
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
119320 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:09 am to
Money is also created when the Federal Reserve buys treasuries.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
119320 posts
Posted on 4/27/23 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Where did it go? This is not my expertise area


Here is oversimplified example (and how I believe it works...anyone feel free to correct me).

Congress appropriates a $4T budget.

Tax revenue is $3T.

Congress via the Treasury Department needs to raise $1T.

Treasury Department sells $1T worth of bonds.

To maintain interest rate goals set by the Federal Reserve the Treasury Department can only sell $0.5T worth of bonds on the open market not including the Federal Reserve.

The Federal Reserve steps in and purchases the $0.5T in bonds via 21 Primary Dealers (banks that work for the Federal Reserve). $0.5T is printed and the bonds are put on the FR's balance sheet. LINK

The bonds mature and the Treasury pays the par value of the bond plus interest. This is when money is removed. The interest minus expense is returned back to the Treasury. By law the FR cannot earn interest on the bonds they purchase.
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