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re: The Man Who Knows Too Much...Snowden Related
Posted on 6/20/14 at 1:54 pm to ShortyRob
Posted on 6/20/14 at 1:54 pm to ShortyRob
And there were many, many options available to Snowden.
If he truly cared about his country he would not have unloaded his treasure to our two biggest adversaries China and Russia.
This is personality driven, this is about Edward Snowden who I honestly believe could give two shits about overreach, oversight etc. And if that's not the case then why leak it in pieces? because it keeps him relevant. And he got to speak at SBSW, very trendy.
If he truly cared about his country he would not have unloaded his treasure to our two biggest adversaries China and Russia.
This is personality driven, this is about Edward Snowden who I honestly believe could give two shits about overreach, oversight etc. And if that's not the case then why leak it in pieces? because it keeps him relevant. And he got to speak at SBSW, very trendy.
2
Posted on 6/20/14 at 1:56 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Oversight is great unless the executive is perfectly OK with the behavior.
I was referring to congressional oversight.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 1:57 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
And there were many, many options available to Snowden.
Not really. he followed the correct protocols multiple times over a period of a few years.
nothing was done. What other options did he have?
Posted on 6/20/14 at 1:58 pm to Lsut81
quote:
Greenwald has claimed there is more damning stuff for months and months yet none of it has come out.
The linked article indicates June or July of this year. The timing of the article is somewhat suspicious too.
I do think the revelation will be relative to domestic spying on notable US citizens. I would not be surprised if it is spying by a current or former administration on political opponents, or financial backers.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 1:58 pm to Navytiger74
quote:I'm aware of this.
I was referring to congressional oversight.
But, the only thing congress can do if the agencies go rogue is try and pass legislation to pull them back.
Legislation that the executive would have vetoed. Basically, the way things are set up, if the NSA loses it's mind, it would take a veto proof majority in both chambers to stop it.
Something the NSA knows very well and happily takes advantage of
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:00 pm to Navytiger74
quote:
The question was indelicate and asked in the wrong forum.
Oh, well fricking excuuuuuse me! One wouldn't ever want to step on any toes with indelicate questions about classified programs THAT MONITOR ALL OF YOUR PHONE CALLS.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:07 pm to Navytiger74
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:27 pm
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:08 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
if the NSA loses it's mind
Man I know a married couple that works for NSA, he is a 15 she is a 14, they have a dog named Millie.
I'm certain neither are evil.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:08 pm to Tigerlaff
quote:
classified programs THAT MONITOR ALL OF YOUR PHONE CALLS.
No such program exists.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:09 pm to Lakeboy7
I have had very mixed feelings about Snowden and swing between thinking he is a hero, supporting his actions wholeheartedly for disclosing what the Federal Government is doing to its citizens to being upset with him and considering him a traitor for sharing secrets that betray US intelligence.
The part of this issue that is most disturbing to me is the fact that most of the anger is being directed at Snowden instead of at the gross over-reach by an increasingly corrupt government that lies constantly and thinks laws are meant to be ignored or broken.
Snowden is very likely, as you imply, a narcissist and has character flaws and maybe his motives weren't pure, BUT that doesn't negate the facts surrounding the illegal spying on Americans that the NSA is doing that he disclosed. This needed to come out. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and we certainly need things to be cleaned up!
The part of this issue that is most disturbing to me is the fact that most of the anger is being directed at Snowden instead of at the gross over-reach by an increasingly corrupt government that lies constantly and thinks laws are meant to be ignored or broken.
Snowden is very likely, as you imply, a narcissist and has character flaws and maybe his motives weren't pure, BUT that doesn't negate the facts surrounding the illegal spying on Americans that the NSA is doing that he disclosed. This needed to come out. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and we certainly need things to be cleaned up!
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:10 pm to Navytiger74
quote:
THAT MONITOR ALL OF YOUR PHONE CALLS.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:15 pm to Navytiger74
quote:See, that's where you lose an audience, Navy.
No such program exists.
Instead of saying "they don't monitor content, just connections," you imply they don't monitor at all. The latter is unfortunately total BS.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 2:24 pm to Decatur
quote:
I think one easily see the two are not comparable at all, unless one is trying to play some kind of gotcha game.
I'm not playing a gotcha game, but a perspective game - I haven't really been getting conservatives to weigh in on Ellsberg, but I should.
The libertarians are the most consistent on this issue, equally lauding both men as "heroic" - convervatives tend to back Snowden a little more than liberals, and that is reversed with Ellsberg.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 3:06 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I'm not playing a gotcha game,
Wasn't referring to you specifically, it's a regular fallback argument for Greenwald et al, that if you agreed with what Ellsberg did then you should agree with what Snowden did (in a nutshell).
Posted on 6/20/14 at 3:26 pm to Decatur
quote:
Snowden is leaking SIGINT sources and methods for our military and intelligence agencies, some of the most highly classified information we keep.
Regardless of one's opinion of Snowden, to allow a low level data clerk to have full access to "some of the most highly classified information we keep." seems like gross incompetence on the part of the agency, it should have been compartmentalized at a minimum.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 3:31 pm to EA6B
quote:
to allow a low level data clerk to have full access to "some of the most highly classified information we keep.
As a sys admin w/ access to some databases he was permitted as a part of his job to move some files from one place to the other. He didn't have access to everything, but he took a whole lot.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 4:16 pm to DeltaDoc
Snowden is a patriot in the truest sense of the word and a hero for exposing our corrupt, overreaching government. You patriotic nationalistic yahoos don't get that. But I wouldn't expect you to.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 4:21 pm to Decatur
quote:
Wasn't referring to you specifically, it's a regular fallback argument for Greenwald et al, that if you agreed with what Ellsberg did then you should agree with what Snowden did (in a nutshell).
I agree with that to a certain extent - but I'm grappling with it, so I understand other people grappling with it.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 4:24 pm to genuineLSUtiger
I like how everyone wants to form an opinion about a top secret agency that they know nothing about other than what a man now living in Russia said.
Posted on 6/20/14 at 4:30 pm to Decatur
quote:
As a sys admin w/ access to some databases he was permitted as a part of his job to move some files from one place to the other. He didn't have access to everything
Sys admins are deemed access persons to highly confidential information in most organizations for this very reason. The point still stands.
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