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re: Tesla's gigafactory is a cool idea but not really sustainable

Posted on 6/28/17 at 12:55 pm to
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
68139 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 12:55 pm to
As long as Musk isn't asking for government subsidies, he can do as he pleases as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
18063 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

Let's not act like mountaintop removal, logging, etc. are clean either.


not to digress too much but modern logging is both clean and sustainable.
Posted by cahoots
Member since Jan 2009
9134 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 12:58 pm to
Can't the factories be used to produce new battery technologies? Are they somehow locked in to producing the same kind of batteries for the foreseeable future?
Posted by RobbBobb
Matt Flynn, BCS MVP
Member since Feb 2007
27958 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

Yeah, SpaceX is such an obvious long-con. Just a billionaire moocher! Sad!

Like I said, ultimate con man

LINK
quote:

SpaceX, Musk's rocket company, got $20 million in economic development subsidies from Texas to construct a launch facility in the state.

quote:

This, however, is separate from incentives that SpaceX won totaling more than $5.5 billion in government contracts from NASA and the U.S. Air Force.

quote:

Elon Musk funded his massive business empire with $4.9 billion in government subsidies leaving the U.S. taxpayer to shoulder much of the cost

quote:

"He definitely goes where there is government money," said Dan Dolev, an analyst at Jefferies Equity Research. "That's a great strategy, but the government will cut you off one day."

quote:

But public subsidies for Musk's companies stand out both for the amount, relative to the size of the companies, and for their dependence on them. "Government support is a theme of all three of these companies, and without it none of them would be around," said Mark Spiegel, a hedge fund manager for Stanphyl Capital Partners

quote:

Included in the local subsidies is a 15-year property tax break from the local school district worth $3.1 million to SpaceX.

quote:

In a 2008 blog post, Musk laid out a plan: After the sports car, Tesla would produce a sedan costing "half the $89k price point of the Tesla Roadster and the third model will be even more affordable." In fact, the second model now typically sells for $100,000, and the much-delayed third model, the Model X sport utility, is expected to sell for a similar price. Timing on a less expensive model — maybe $35,000 or $40,000, after subsidies — remains uncertain.

LINK

Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37563 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:00 pm to
There is no sustainable production of nickel and lithium in the United States.
Posted by rbWarEagle
Member since Nov 2009
49999 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:04 pm to
Leech! Makes no progress for mankind and sucks off the government teet! Sad!
Posted by MorningWood
On the coast of North Mexico
Member since May 2009
2670 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:05 pm to
So in other words we are trading one unrenewable resource for another unrenewable resourse to save the planet. Makes sense
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37563 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 1:06 pm to
Those cars will double, triple or quadruple in price in the next decade.

Look at a commodity chart for lithium. This is just with a tiny demand for electric vehicles



Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:03 pm to
quote:


not to digress too much but modern logging is both clean and sustainable.


In the U.S it has come a long way. It's pathetic in most of the world. More often than not when I'm on logging sites it's an absolute shitshow.. but I do recognize that significant progress has been made so I'm grateful that we are where we are
Posted by Street Hawk
Member since Nov 2014
3464 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:06 pm to
So you are saying no one at Tesla did this analysis before sinking billions of dollars into this factory. Got it.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37563 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:07 pm to
They've gotten $5 billion from the government dude

Posted by seawolf06
NH
Member since Oct 2007
8159 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:07 pm to
As the demand curve shifts (increases), the price and quantity supplied will increase, unless there is a physical limitation.

When cars were first invented, I bet you couldn't find enough steel to make the quantity of cars that Ford wanted to produce. The increased demand for cars drove price of steel up, which means that more companies entered the steel market thereby increasing the quantity supplied.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37563 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:09 pm to
Steel and lithium/cobalt are two different things.

Iron is the 4th most abundant element in Earths crust.

Not really comparable
Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:10 pm to
Immature lithium market and Musk seems keen on the very common lithium salt as well
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
23965 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 3:45 pm to
quote:

Musk is the ultimate con man



Said the Trump voter
Posted by CoachDon
Louisville
Member since Sep 2014
12409 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:01 pm to
Posted by Willie Stroker
Member since Sep 2008
12946 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

All of the lithium and cobalt are coming from dirty mines in the Congo and China.

If only we could judge future supply by current supply...

quote:

And they will need to be expanded vastly to meet demand

If only there was a billionaire willing to fund this...
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:06 pm to
quote:

There is no sustainable production of nickel and lithium in the United States.
You just explained to me that "in the United States" was included in your definition of "sustainable."

I'm guessing this was your hamfisted attempt to beg the question.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
53096 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:07 pm to
Don't you want to save the environment? Buy a trendy new tesla cuckmobile! It's like a love child between a Miata and a Prius!
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37563 posts
Posted on 6/28/17 at 4:07 pm to
There is no sustainable production of lithium or cobalt in the US in relation to producing batteries for electric cars.

What's your point again?
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