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Started By
Message
re: Steve Schmidt, Sarah Palin, Game Change
Posted on 8/8/14 at 9:58 am to teke184
Posted on 8/8/14 at 9:58 am to teke184
quote:
Considering that McCain had been heavily considering a "unity ticket" with Sen. Joe Lieberman as his VP, that's a huge deal. Choosing Lieberman may have helped him out in the center but it would have cratered him with his base and wouldn't have helped him on the left, where Lieberman had pretty much been ostracized for holding firm on his foreign policy positions.
It does make you wonder though. Sure, he would have been damaged at the base, which would have hurt fundraising, but he still wins all the red states by a huge margin no matter what against Obama. You feel that the pick helps with independents. In light of the above fact.....isn't that what matters?
I think he loses either way. The financial collapse helped Obama as well. Kind of like a "war-time" president.
1
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:02 am to AUbused
quote:
but he still wins all the red states by a huge margin no matter what against Obama.
Uh, no.
There were a LOT of red states closer than they had every right to be. They even ended up losing Indiana, North Carolina, and Virginia, which were pretty reliably red.
If McCain loses enthusiasm amongst the base, turnout in those states is lowered and Obama possibly overtakes him.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:06 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
She does;t have the elite sheepskin, but she is far from an idiot
Well it's really a matter of opinion I guess, but I haven't see anything out of her to make me believe she holds anything more than average intelligence. Many of her interviews while she was the VP candidate are painful to watch.
quote:
There are hundreds of DEM politicos who are flat out mouth breathing stupid compared to her.
Okay, so it's just a partisan issue to you. There are idiots on both sides, and there are highly intelligent people on both sides.
quote:
I just don't get the hatin Palin
I don't hate Palin. I actually love her. She is entertaining, nothing more. I watched her on Hannity a month or two ago and laughed hysterically.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:06 am to AUbused
quote:
The problems with the McCain campaign were.........first and foremost........McCain himself
Absolutely.
The guy was a putrid candidate. And the worst campaigner since Bob Dole.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:12 am to AUbused
quote:
dealing with "Putin rearing his head"
Since she was one of the only people predicting Putin's actions, I'd say she would handle it better than anybody in office now. Though, the ones in office now haven't set the bar very high.
quote:
independents trend left slowly over time
This is a bill of goods sold by talking heads and opinion editors. A huge chunk of independents are now people who left the Republican party due to them going along to get along.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:17 am to teke184
Maybe. Im not sure. Maybe Im overestimating the ideological fervor against Obama in these states and the resulting drive that provided. So, you seem hip to political realities. How do you feel the GOP can overcome the seemingly growing divide between appeasing the base while at the same time winning independents? Do you see it as a challenge at all or do you reject the notion outright?
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:20 am to SoulGlo
quote:
This is a bill of goods sold by talking heads and opinion editors. A huge chunk of independents are now people who left the Republican party due to them going along to get along.
Sorry but no. This is the empirically observable fact of history and society. A significant portion of the base moving harder and harder right does not bode well for the party. This is made evident by the ideological schism currently manifesting itself. IMO of course.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:21 am to AUbused
quote:
Maybe. Im not sure. Maybe Im overestimating the ideological fervor against Obama in these states and the resulting drive that provided. So, you seem hip to political realities. How do you feel the GOP can overcome the seemingly growing divide between appeasing the base while at the same time winning independents? Do you see it as a challenge at all or do you reject the notion outright?
The simple solution is to put forth a candidate with a plan that the base and independents can agree on instead of a "me too" Democrat.
My chosen candidate right now is Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin, whose signature achievement is changing collective bargaining by teacher's unions. He's implemented it, despite national attention poured into attacking it on multiple fronts, and it has paid off by filling the coffers of the state and municipalities which were empty when his predecessor took over.
If Walker were to articulate such a policy nationally and push for it, there would be a lot of support from parents and citizens alike, with most of the hatred for it coming from the same groups that already hate him, which are Big Labor and the Democrats.
Having someone who has vision and can articulate it goes a long way in getting people to get behind them, especially when they have followed through on it at the state level.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:26 am to AUbused
quote:Exactly. If the republicans would stop nominating such hard right radicals like John McCain and Mitt Romeny, they would do soooo much better with independents. Those staunch right wingers are killing the party.
Sorry but no. This is the empirically observable fact of history and society. A significant portion of the base moving harder and harder right does not bode well for the party. This is made evident by the ideological schism currently manifesting itself.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:39 am to teke184
quote:
The simple solution is to put forth a candidate with a plan that the base and independents can agree on
Sorry but this feels a bit like an oversimplification. Especially the "simple" part. Sure one issue maybe, but what candidate embodies both the ideals of independents(moderates) and can mobilize the base (increasingly extreme). Won't the sticking point here continue to be social issues? I know its not a popular subject here because a lot of conservatives here are willing to forego social issues for positive economic policy, but I feel like the base is moving in the opposite direction. Perhaps thats my skewed perception? Also, if the perception of the economy keeps trending positive it takes a bit of the wind out of the economic sails. I do not feel that "Yes the economy is getting better, but it could have been WAY better" is a very strong message.
That being said, I would agree that a pure focus on economic policy is the winner and sticking to that as closely as possible.....but, but given the base, Im not sure how they maintain that tact.
This post was edited on 8/8/14 at 10:42 am
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:40 am to AUbused
quote:
This is the empirically observable fact of history and society. A significant portion of the base moving harder and harder right does not bode well for the party.
Hmm.
Reagan comes to mind.
And, much of the "base" that "moved right" hasn't actually moved right. The establishment politicians have moved left. A lot of the "base" is no longer in the party. So, I'll agree with you on the fact that the R party is in trouble. We disagree on why.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:43 am to SoulGlo
quote:
The establishment politicians have moved left.
This was my point. The establishment politicians have moved left because the center moves left with time. Any ideology that doesn't adapt to this mechanism of progression is doomed do die. (religion anyone?) You could argue, as I believe you are, that the "base" hasn't moved but has stood still as the center moved left, and I would agree to some extent, but I think Obama being elected has caused a bit of a reactive trend right as well.
This post was edited on 8/8/14 at 10:45 am
Posted on 8/8/14 at 10:58 am to The Spleen
quote:
Well it's really a matter of opinion I guess, but I haven't see anything out of her to make me believe she holds anything more than average intelligence. Many of her interviews while she was the VP candidate are painful to watch.
What is your measuring stick, Obama, Biden, Gore, Hillary?
If lying is permitted and never chalanged who wouldn't appear intelligent.
Do your remember any of Obama's press conferences when he tried to answer a question that wasn't scripted?
Posted on 8/8/14 at 11:34 am to roygu
quote:
What is your measuring stick, Obama, Biden, Gore, Hillary?
No, my measuring stick isn't someone else. My measuring stick is looking at how someone articulates their answer to a question, combined with their resume(both educationally and professionally), combined with their perceived knowledge of whatever it is they are talking about. Palin was pretty shaky in all three of those categories, especially the last one.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 11:45 am to BayouBlitz
quote:
Anne Coulter is in the media every other day, so what? Part of the reason why she's in the media, is because she's easy to make fun of.
What the frick?? Please explain that further?????
Posted on 8/8/14 at 11:54 am to AUbused
quote:
Sorry........everything is not the same as everything else. Say what you want about Obama's policies but he was a law professor. In all likelihood he had at least a moderate or serviceable grasp of the subjects about which Palin had/has no clue.
This is ludicrous. I'm not sure why lawyers are elevated to some priestly status in our technocratic society, but they are. Joe Biden is a lawyer and he's an absolute idiot. And Obama was technically a lecturer, not a professor.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 12:05 pm to fleaux
Was in response to the guy who said Palin had 'staying power'.
He said Palin was in the media every other day. I said, so is Coulter. That doesn't mean anybody takes her seriously.
And I pointed out that Palin is in the media, because she's easy to make fun of.
And Palin tapped out on her Governorship. Thus, saying she has staying power is a ridiculous notion. She's just a boob that the left like to laugh at.
(To my exact quote, I meant part of the reason why PALIN was in the media, if that was confusing.)
He said Palin was in the media every other day. I said, so is Coulter. That doesn't mean anybody takes her seriously.
And I pointed out that Palin is in the media, because she's easy to make fun of.
And Palin tapped out on her Governorship. Thus, saying she has staying power is a ridiculous notion. She's just a boob that the left like to laugh at.
(To my exact quote, I meant part of the reason why PALIN was in the media, if that was confusing.)
Posted on 8/8/14 at 12:23 pm to The Spleen
quote:
but she is far from an idiot
Well it's really a matter of opinion I guess, but I haven't see anything out of her to make me believe she holds anything more than average intelligence. Many of her interviews while she was the VP candidate are painful to watch.
Her first interview was painful - she was not prepared. I found that her vision in the remaining interviews was commendable.
quote:
here are idiots on both sides, and there are highly intelligent people on both sides.
I would be willing to play a game of matching up the dumbest elected DEMs with the dumbest elected GOPs and see who runs out of credible candidates first.
The DEM party has an unending multitude of idiots. The GOP has a few.
I think you are equating 'intelligence' with Ivy League diplomas. These diplomas are great and certainly a really dumb person cannot get one (unless you are a quota).
Many very intelligent people went to pedestrian schools for a variety of reasons.
But raw IQ is not a final criterion for national leadership. Common sense and the ability for logical reasoning are far more critical attributes.
The "intelligence' issue is partisan to me because it is a huge weapon of the left - they charge conservatives as being unintelligence for opposing their socialist agenda, all the while they try to legislate against common sense = thinking they can make the impossible work because they are just so 'smart.'
Yes it is partisan with me - because I utterly REJECT the partisan attacks by the radical left wing. If THEY didm't hammer it all the time you would not hear a peep out of me about it.
When did it become the standard that a true radical can say or do anything they want, but the instant you try to rebut them it is YOU who are being 'partisan.' No better example of this right now is the opposition to Israel's defense against the radical muslims lobbing rockets into Israel and using their own children's deaths as propaganda fodder.
quote:
I don't hate Palin. I actually love her. She is entertaining, nothing more. I watched her on Hannity a month or two ago and laughed hysterically.
I never watch Hannity, and rarely go out of my way to listen to Palin.
Hannity IS an idiot. Palin has no political office, cannot cause a thing to happen good or bad. For someone to watch an idiot interview an irrelevant political entity just so you can make 'fun of the conservative woman' seems such a waste of time - an betrays some amount of hatred on your part - else it wouldn't be 'funny.'
I loath Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Clinton - but I NEVER listen to them just to make fun of the lies and idiotic crap they spew. I don't have time for that.
For you to rationalize as 'entertaining' listening to someone you not only consider wrong on the issues, but are convinced they are idiots, just to make fun of them seems awfully pathetic to me. You would get a REAL boner at the Special Olympics.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 12:29 pm to the808bass
quote:
This is ludicrous. I'm not sure why lawyers are elevated to some priestly status in our technocratic society, but they are. Joe Biden is a lawyer and he's an absolute idiot. And Obama was technically a lecturer, not a professor.
My position has nothing to do with elevating lawyers to some deity status. Sarah Palin graduated from the University of Idaho with a bachelors in Communication. Obama from Harvard Law. You'll excuse me if Id bank on the Harvard Law professor having a better grasp of National and World politics, history, etc.
Posted on 8/8/14 at 12:32 pm to AUbused
quote:
My position has nothing to do with elevating lawyers to some deity status. Sarah Palin graduated from the University of Idaho with a bachelors in Communication. Obama from Harvard Law. You'll excuse me if Id bank on the Harvard Law professor having a better grasp of National and World politics, history, etc.
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee graduated from Yale undergrad and has a master's from the U. of Virginia Law School. And she is utterly fricking retarded.
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