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Spinoff: The Commonwealth Fund Healthcare 2017 rankings. US basically ranked last
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:05 pm
The Commonwealth Fund Healthcare 2017 Rankings
Just came out recently, and the US is ranked 10-11 out of 11 European countries/Canada.
I know this is a totally bogus study. Will anyone here dispute that?
Just came out recently, and the US is ranked 10-11 out of 11 European countries/Canada.
I know this is a totally bogus study. Will anyone here dispute that?
12
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:07 pm to WaWaWeeWa
These studies tend to put a lot of weight on "fairness", so they are basically bunk.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:07 pm to WaWaWeeWa
Looks about right.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Unless you care about fairness. 
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:09 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
These studies tend to put a lot of weight on "fairness", so they are basically bunk.
exactly
also they seem to judge "access" highly but don't include things like "extreme waiting times" as part of "access"
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:09 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
Just came out recently, and the US is ranked 10-11 out of 11 European countries/Canada. I know this is a totally bogus study. Will anyone here dispute that
So basically this report means Obamacare sucks! Right?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:09 pm to WaWaWeeWa
what was the category? Best at treating stab wounds?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:09 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
Unless you care about fairness.
that shouldn't be a factor in ranking healthcare systems
"fairness" is getting into things like coverage and access and not the quality of the actual outcomes
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:10 pm to TigerDoc
quote:It seems like an odd thing to care about when measuring how "effective" treatment is in america.
Unless you care about fairness.
Ask Charlie Gard about fairness.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:10 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
Unless you care about fairness
What is fairness? And who defines it?
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:13 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
yeah these rankings merge "healthcare" and "government"
you have to make the assumption that the 2 concepts should be intertwined in order to effectively rank the systems
which really only makes sense if that will benfit your system, ie, you already have an intertwined public insurance system
you have to make the assumption that the 2 concepts should be intertwined in order to effectively rank the systems
which really only makes sense if that will benfit your system, ie, you already have an intertwined public insurance system
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:13 pm to TigerDoc
quote:Subjective measures should not be used to evaluate systems like healthcare.
Unless you care about fairness.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:13 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
"fairness" is getting into things like coverage and access and not the quality of the actual outcomes
Yes. And that's important too.
They rank quality as well and there we're 5th of 11, same as we were in '14.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:14 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
I know this is a totally bogus study. Will anyone here dispute that?
The grading criteria is suspect. The US has a high mortality rate yet we also have a high homicide and suicide rate. Quality of care or access to care grading criteria will not address those incidents. The other missing grading is what constitutes child mortality which the us has a very liberal standard versus other nations.
Find it odd that the country with the highest drug research and surgical methods is ranked lower. Personal care is out the door for government doctrine and many of these studies are disingenuous at best.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:21 pm to WaWaWeeWa
The CommonWealth Fund has never attempted to really hide who they are and what they want.
They were a favorite of my grad school professors to reference and assign papers for policy discussion. They want access and equity above all. We're not very good at those b/c, you know, capitalism and all. But the theme of their data and conclusions has been consistent since I was in school 9+ years ago. I wholeheartedly disagree with alot of their positions, much to the chagrin of certain professors, but they aren't deceptive, IMO.
They were a favorite of my grad school professors to reference and assign papers for policy discussion. They want access and equity above all. We're not very good at those b/c, you know, capitalism and all. But the theme of their data and conclusions has been consistent since I was in school 9+ years ago. I wholeheartedly disagree with alot of their positions, much to the chagrin of certain professors, but they aren't deceptive, IMO.
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:23 pm to WaWaWeeWa
No system is perfect but there is no other country that has better trained doctors overall and better treatment outcomes overall, especially for cancer. And yes, we do a very large percentage of all the world's meaningful medical research. And yes, we do subsidize drug prices for the rest of the world.
If the US health industry disappeared overnight, the next day would see innovation grind to a halt and drug prices go through the roof for these "superior" health care systems.
If the US health industry disappeared overnight, the next day would see innovation grind to a halt and drug prices go through the roof for these "superior" health care systems.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:23 pm to TigerDoc
So, isn't this sort of an indictment of the ACA?
The left used to love to cite these "rankings" back in the early 2000s
The left used to love to cite these "rankings" back in the early 2000s
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
So, isn't this sort of an indictment of the ACA?
The left used to love to cite these "rankings" back in the early 2000s
It would mean the ACA hasn't changed their opinion of the system. I was reading CommonWealth Fund papers while the ACA was in development, and their conclusions were the same as they are now. They were big believers in the WHO rankings at the time, and use alot of the same measures.
This post was edited on 7/19/17 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:32 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
In a way, it's an indictment, if you judge ACA by the standard of giving us an elite health care system. It was a pragmatic attempt to move the US toward universal coverage (it did expand access) and reduce the cost of healthcare spending growth (which happened at first and is creeping back up). No one in the healthcare world thinks of it as an ideal. It's generally seen as progress though flawed and in need of revisions. Obama himself concedes as much.
Posted on 7/19/17 at 1:33 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
progress though flawed and in need of revisions
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