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Started By
Message
re: Single-payer would be a nightmare for Americans
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:18 pm to NC_Tigah
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:18 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
NC_Tigah
I'm asking for a link backing up this specific statement:
quote:
if the NHS was burdened with foundational American costs, it would run 2-to-3-fold the cost it does in the UK.
You made it, and even included specific numbers (2-3 fold). Back those numbers up with facts.
2
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:20 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Absolutely 100% progressive anti-science bullshite.
Health is rarely a poor choice, and often random chance.
If you truly believe that it is "rarely" related to poor choices, I'm not even going to waste my time.
Is this really the mindset of those trying to change healthcare?
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:21 pm to BamaAtl
quote:US cost of living explains why US Health Care is 2-to-3-fold more expensive than European Costs?
You might want to look up 'cost of living'.
No?
Then WTF are you blabbering about?
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:22 pm to Scruffy
quote:
If you truly believe that it is "rarely" related to poor choices, I'm not even going to waste my time.
We have to design a system that accounts for the fact that health is often random. Saying "make good choices and you won't get sick" ignores that, and shows you don't understand why or how people get sick.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:23 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
US cost of living explains why US Health Care is 2-to-3-fold more expensive than European Costs?
Combined with our lack of universal coverage, our larger more diverse population, our larger geographic footprint (rural medicine is expensive, you should know that out in the boonies), and our inability to properly wrap our heads around end of life care, sure.
Did you find that link for your 'fact' yet?
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:24 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Let's try this again,
I'm asking for a link backing up this specific statement:
You're seriously asking for a link demonstrating differential hospital costs in the US vs UK?
You're seriously asking for a link demonstrating differential pharmaceutical costs in the US vs UK?
You're seriously asking for a link demonstrating differential medical equipment costs in the US vs UK?
You're seriously asking for a link demonstrating differential device costs in the US vs UK?
You're seriously asking for a link demonstrating differential tort costs in the US vs UK?
Those ARE the foundational costs, nitwit!
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:25 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Let's try this again,
Let's. You can start with a link for your 2-3 fold assertion. I posted the specific text you need to back up above.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:26 pm to Scruffy
quote:
quote: Health is rarely a poor choice, and often random chance. Absolutely 100% progressive anti-science bull shite.
Statements like that clue us in to the reality that she's a case worker in a lab in Emory.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:26 pm to WeeWee
Do you know what is required to launch a "website"? Or where they could have improved their project results? Or you just here bitching about something you dont understand?
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:27 pm to BamaAtl
quote:That adds expense?
our larger more diverse population
How?
quote:Link?
rural medicine is expensive
quote:Death panels.
our inability to properly wrap our heads around end of life care, sure.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:28 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Is it "often random" or the vast majority of the time random (rarely)? Make up your mind.
We have to design a system that accounts for the fact that health is often random.
quote:I said that making good choices significantly improves your chances of remaining disease free.
Saying "make good choices and you won't get sick" ignores that, and shows you don't understand why or how people get sick.
If you don't smoke, it significantly decreases your chances of getting COPD.
If you eat healthy and exercise, it decreases your chances of getting heart disease.
I support building a system catered to the majority and not the fringes.
I also support a system that gifts those who take action to improve their health and punishes those who do the opposite.
Those who make unhealthy choices should have to pay more.
Genetics will always play a part, but if you choose certain options, you decrease the chance of disease.
I don't support poor choices like you seem to.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:30 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Pull comparative costs of the areas cited. If you have questions after that, I'll help you with your homework.
You can start with a link for your 2-3 fold assertion.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:31 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Link? You've been so dishonest on everything related to this issue, it's time you backed up your 'facts' with some sources.
If you need a "link" to reality, you have a problem.
When making the comparison of free market healthcare choices with any country that has "single payer", you're comparing apples to oranges if your criteria focus revolves around cost.
In "personal choice" systems, hundreds of millions of individuals make their own decisions as to what medical procedure they what to pursue and pay for. The aggregate of all those choices add to the "cost" of "healthcare"
In single payer systems, the cost of medical care is a fixed number...on a line..in a budget. There are X number of people...we have X number of dollars. That is the cost of healthcare.
Comparing the cost of each and imagining that it is composed of equal... chosen by the individuals.. procedures, is just dumb.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:35 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Pull comparative costs of the areas cited.
Why, when that was your assignment?
And I agree with you, single payer would drive down costs.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:37 pm to BamaAtl
Lololololololololololololololol
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:38 pm to Scruffy
quote:
s it "often random" or the vast majority of the time random (rarely)?
Genetics play a role in nearly every illness, or are you going to deny that too?
quote:
I support building a system catered to the majority and not the fringes.
I support a system that covers everyone regardless of their ability to pay.
quote:
Those who make unhealthy choices should have to pay more.
Like a soda tax? Since when were you Bloomberg-esque?
Posted on 7/25/17 at 7:57 pm to BamaAtl
European-style socialized medicine only works because they have access to products and procedures designed for the profit potential of the US market. I worked for a major pharmaceutical company. They made more money in the US market than in the rest of the world combined. Take away that moneymaking potential with government price controls, and what do you think will motivate medical and pharmaceutical companies to pour as much money into R&D as they do now? Altruism?
European socialism works because they do not close their economies the way the Soviets did. They piggyback off of the US market. American capitalism is the engine that drives the West. Remove it and watch the dominoes fall.
European socialism works because they do not close their economies the way the Soviets did. They piggyback off of the US market. American capitalism is the engine that drives the West. Remove it and watch the dominoes fall.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 8:03 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Nope. Do some of your own work on those comparatives. I've posted specifics previously. Do your own work. Maybe that way you'll remember it.
when that was your assignment?
quote:Nope.
single payer would drive down costs.
Posted on 7/25/17 at 8:28 pm to BamaAtl
quote:But you don't.
I support a system that covers everyone regardless of their ability to pay
You've made that crystal clear in your posts.
You have the personal opportunity to live up to your pledge daily.
You don't.
Instead of treating them, you send those would-be patients to an administrator who decides for you whether you will treat them or not.
Truth is, you and your facility are happy to treat patients if they have ability to pay, either personally or via a 3rd party. Aside from that, according to you, it's apparently anybody's guess.
That is why you have the attitude you do about obamacare. You couldn't care less if deductibles absolutely crush a family, as long as your poor patients can somehow pay your bosses who then pay you.
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