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Reminder: A Single Company in Taiwan Makes 92% of the World’s Most Sophisticated Chips

Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:34 am
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
13582 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:34 am
Joe Biden’s weakness is emboldening China to take Taiwan and cripple our tech dependent economy.

We can’t have it both ways. We love exporting all our manufacturing overseas to save a few dollars but if we depend on other countries for fuel and vital tech we can’t also be hands free dealing with international foes like Russia and China. It is a national security threat.

We could move to open back up energy production here and we could manufacture critical tech here, and then China and Russia’s aggressive actions would have less affect. Can’t have it both ways though.
Posted by FlyingTiger1955
Member since Jan 2019
5765 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:44 am to
They’re about to be under new management.
Posted by TDsngumbo
Alpha Silverfox
Member since Oct 2011
41634 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:46 am to
quote:

We love exporting all our manufacturing overseas to save a few dollars but if we depend on other countries for fuel and vital tech we can’t also be hands free dealing with international foes like Russia and China.

In complete fairness, Trump had four years to bring chip manufacturing to the US. If 92% if the world’s most sophisticated chips are manufactured in a political hot zone like Taiwan, he should’ve done something about that. As a diehard Trump guy, I’m kinda disappointed he didn’t have the foresight to fix that.
This post was edited on 2/24/22 at 7:47 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422651 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:54 am to
quote:

We love exporting all our manufacturing overseas to save a few dollars

Did we export this company or are we simply importing their goods? It seems that you want Taiwan to export its manufacturing here.

I do agree that we need to explore vital chip manufacturing domestically (or at least regionally, possibly in Mexico), but you frame it very poorly. This is something we are taking from them and to do so, we will need to invest billions (or have "them" do it, like is being done outside of Austin right now).
Posted by WhiskeyThrottle
Weatherford Tx
Member since Nov 2017
5322 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:54 am to
quote:

We could move to open back up energy production here


Following our morals doesn't come without cost.

- Twat Psaki
Posted by LongueCarabine
Pointe Aux Pins, LA
Member since Jan 2011
8205 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:56 am to
quote:

As a diehard Trump guy, I’m kinda disappointed he didn’t have the foresight


Did you miss where he started that process? You can’t build new chip plants in 4 years.
Posted by Tesla
the Laurentian Abyss
Member since Dec 2011
7975 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 7:58 am to
quote:

I do agree that we need to explore vital chip manufacturing domestically (or at least regionally, possibly in Mexico), but you frame it very poorly


This is underway as quickly as possible right now. It takes quite a bit to stand up one of these operations.

Garmin’s manufacturing is in Taiwan. The world is about to find out how many things have a Garmin GPS in them.
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
13582 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:00 am to
yes, the US just can’t possibly match Taiwan’s chip manufacturing capabilities

The reason it’s done overseas is to save money.


It just seems really naive for us to continue as if nothing is wrong when China could swoop in and take that country and our entire tech dependent economy would grind to a halt. It is a serious national security threat. I don’t care what administration does it but micro chip production needs to be at least partially done here so we could ramp up production at home if China goes wild over there.
Posted by AUCom96
Alabama
Member since May 2020
5001 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:00 am to
We can pump endless money into private "defense" and "green energy" companies, but we won't lift a finger to incentivize our manufacturing. I still feel Trump's very mild actions against China were primarily behind the hellstorm to get him impeached.

A lot of cats have been getting fat on China and they'd rather liquidate and run than lose a single decimal point on the ticker. Hard to fight that other than let them - and unfortunately the rest of us - realize the flaws in their "free market" system.
Posted by JimNat
Member since Jan 2020
698 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:01 am to
quote:

As a diehard Trump fan, disappointed he didn’t do something about it

I am also, but let’s not forget Trump was first President to want manufacturing built back up in this country. Obama, W, Clinton could have been more aggressive in this also. I will keep hammering this home, until we can slow the US Chamber of Commerce down, we will have this problem. They pushed back on chip manufacturing in this country.
Posted by lechateau
Member since Dec 2021
967 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:03 am to
quote:

cripple our tech dependent economy


If I knew this would destroy the path "tech" is taking us, id light the fuse myself
Posted by GhostOfFreedom
Member since Jan 2021
11716 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:03 am to
We have to get back to making the majority or all our chips here at home.

Trump understood that and was pushing for it. The globalist didn't want that.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422651 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:06 am to
quote:

the US just can’t possibly match Taiwan’s chip manufacturing capabilities

Where did I say that?

It would cost billions in investment, take years to develop, and would cost consumers trillions in the long run. This isn't a simple switch being flipped.

quote:

The reason it’s done overseas is to save money.

And because Taiwan just is an expert in this sort of advanced manufacturing b/c they developed this over decades. That's why your framing is poor. Sure, the US is one of the few countries who could theoretically challenge Taiwan in this area, but it's more than just cost. Also, cost would be a major issue and, as I said above, would end up costing consumers trillions in the long run most likely.

The costs matter. That's less money going into other investments and avenues that the US is better at than the rest of the world. It would likely end up -EV in terms of dollars and cents and would likely require federal subsidies to remain viable.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422651 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:07 am to
quote:

If I knew this would destroy the path "tech" is taking us, id light the fuse myself

Tech is one of the primary drivers of our economy.

First, tech would still exist. It would just be produced elsewhere.

Second, we would get a lot poorer without being the producer of that tech.
Posted by Origins of Asymmetry
Member since Feb 2022
724 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:09 am to
quote:


If I knew this would destroy the path "tech" is taking us, id light the fuse myself


You're confusing the different tech industries
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
13582 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:17 am to
quote:

It would cost billions in investment, take years to develop, and would cost consumers trillions in the long run. This isn't a simple switch being flipped.



If China takes Taiwan none of this will matter and we will have to do it anyway. It will cost us trillions overnight because our entire economy would tank.

So the big question is, how willing are you to spend money defending Taiwan vs developing chips in the US? That’s the question. Which is a better investment?


I’m sure Taiwan is good at developing chips, but come on man the US is the most advanced country in the entire world. We could match anything they do and enhance it if we decided to make it a priority.
Posted by Wortivi22
Land of Mini Vans
Member since Dec 2007
855 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:20 am to
LINK

This initiative was started under Trump. I have friends working on this project and they started pouring cement around May of last year.
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
34953 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:21 am to
Very true, RE. Exactly what Trump was doing. But it takes time to get ramped up, and money. Printed money is highly problematic, especially if it is not directed at re-establishing independent National Infrastructure; but rather paying people to lay up.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
422651 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:21 am to
quote:

If China takes Taiwan

WW3 starts.

China ultimately gets crushed.

And yes it would cost trillions.

quote:

I’m sure Taiwan is good at developing chips, but come on man the US is the most advanced country in the entire world. We could match anything they do and enhance it if we decided to make it a priority.

In 5-10 years? Sure.

With a further bloated national debt? Sure.
Posted by RebelExpress38
In your base, killin your dudes
Member since Apr 2012
13582 posts
Posted on 2/24/22 at 8:27 am to
I would rather move chip production away from Taiwan and prevent WWIII. Seems like a cheaper option however you slice it.
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