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re: Question to libs about prexisting conditions and high risk
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:29 pm to SUB
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:29 pm to SUB
quote:THis isn't really the correct analogy. The correct analogy would be someone that has a terrible driving record being charged higher rates.
However, for health insurance, if you get something serious, like cancer, you will need to exercise your policy and file claims for many years or even the rest of your life. That's not exactly the same or similar circumstances as why auto-insurers increase premiums.
0
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:30 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:You might want to have a look-see at the incidence of diabetes and heart disease in the US Black population. Two VERY expensive conditions that also skew the lifespan numbers as well.
Are we alluding to the fact that white people are healthier than black people across the world?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:33 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Nah. It leaves off "MOAR government" and "ability to boss other people around".
but seriously my compromise solution gives Bama everything she wants
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:41 pm to cahoots
quote:
healthcare is particularly difficult because there is so much disparity in healthcare costs among different people.
Yes. But I thought we were talking about health care insurance.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:44 pm to roadGator
quote:
That's not what you are paying for. I don't even think you believe that. CAn you rephrase that? Not trying to be a dick.
In part, yes. And in part, protection from health costs for not so serious illnesses that I may or may not get.
quote:
The methodology is the same.
It shouldn't be because they are very different industries.
quote:
OK. If you insure shipping containers and your insured is sending containers through an area known to be full of pirates should they be able to charge more? When you first began providing them insurance they didn't serve pirate infested waters?
In your scenario, you are asking if premiums should increase based on the insured choosing a more dangerous business practice. It doesn't make sense to compare this to something like somebody getting cancer, which is not a choice.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:44 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
The ironic part of this is that other countries with far more socialistic programs have better life expectancy for less money. Lets not pretend we have some sort of great efficient system over here.
there are too many variables to make that simple statement that life expectancy is directly related to heath care.
the US has a fast food, obesity crisis. we eat more processed food, have near the highest work/stress relationship, work more hours per year then our European friends, and have higher rates of homicide and auto fatalities then most other countries as well.
this all plays in part to life expectancy
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:48 pm to SUB
quote:
In part, yes. And in part, protection from health costs for not so serious illnesses that I may or may not get.
There is nothing in your health insurance contract that indicates that you are paying for good health. It's just not there. I really don't understand where you are going with this.
If you think the methodology should be different then please explain how price setting between one risk and another should be performed differently. I'm sure you could make a ton speaking to actuaries.
What if your cancer is lung cancer due to smoking?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:00 pm to roadGator
quote:This is a puzzler. But so many people have based their views of insurance and necessity to pay for their care around emotion rather than objective rational facts... it's somewhat inevitable.
There is nothing in your health insurance contract that indicates that you are paying for good health.
See above. Many people think that the cause of their condition somehow should have a bearing on the price they pay. That's pure emotion. Whether you have a condition due to lifestyle, or the DNA lottery -- the financial costs to the carrier do not change.
But the emotional calculation certainly does. If only we could pay our rent, or buy food with my emotions... we'd all be rich.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:06 pm to Taxing Authority
Emotional pleas and declarations of fairness are no way to make decisions for the vast majority of people in this country.
The PEC argument is stale because it's mostly about emotions. The overwhelming majority are not affected by PEC clauses but the progs are using PECs to create fear and confusion to get their way.
Notice the use of "may", "might" and "up to". They do this shite on purpose. Propaganda.
TigerDoc has been the only prog I've seen even try to be honest.
He still can't tell me how many people are actually affected by PECs only that I should be fearful that they exist.
The PEC argument is stale because it's mostly about emotions. The overwhelming majority are not affected by PEC clauses but the progs are using PECs to create fear and confusion to get their way.
Notice the use of "may", "might" and "up to". They do this shite on purpose. Propaganda.
TigerDoc has been the only prog I've seen even try to be honest.
He still can't tell me how many people are actually affected by PECs only that I should be fearful that they exist.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:34 pm to schexyoung
quote:
There's a reason countries with single-payer have to tax the hell out of citizens and then they still need to be buy supplemental coverage on private markets.
The taxes those citizens of other countries pay, even if you lump in the cost of any supplemental insurance they choose to buy, are far less than what Americans pay in health insurance.
quote:
You should be on your own
It's really a question of whether you want a civilized society or an every-man-for-himself anarchy like prehistoric humans had and wild animals still have. One price of civilization is pooling resources for the common good.
quote:
Unleash the private market and allow it to fully underwrite risks and create innovative solutions to problems.
Letting people die because they don't have enough money to pay for necessary care is not innovative in the least. In fact, it's the oldest solution on the planet. At some point, we decided we could do better, so we did. Now, some want to go back.
I don't know what in the hell it is that makes people so romanticize prehistoric times, from the paleo diet to extreme libertarian laissez-faire economics, it's all the same damned thing, a return to primitive times before advanced civilization. What idiot thinks those days were better?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:36 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
The taxes those citizens of other countries pay, even if you lump in the cost of any supplemental insurance they choose to buy, are far less than what Americans pay in health insurance.
Link?
I do appreciate you being another honest socialist. We are better able to resist each other if we are honest.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:39 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
advanced civilization.
Your problem is that you view the definition of the above as an all-powerful government that directs every aspect of our lives for the "greater good"....and greater good being whatever you decide it is.
ETA: Just saw you're in DC
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:39 pm to roadGator
quote:
He still can't tell me how many people are actually affected by PECs only that I should be fearful that they exist.
Hey... you never can tell when you might get stricken with a horrible genetic condition.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:43 pm to roadGator
I answered this yesterday.
5 times previously too.
Society must decide whether money rules or some other value.
Insurance is about risk. By definition, an existing condution must be excluded, not covered, if you want "normal" rates.
The excluded issue may be covered by "the state" or church, or not at all, or at a high premium.
Currently capitalists hold sway, but socialists have cut into the $$$$ game, and deep.
5 times previously too.
Society must decide whether money rules or some other value.
Insurance is about risk. By definition, an existing condution must be excluded, not covered, if you want "normal" rates.
The excluded issue may be covered by "the state" or church, or not at all, or at a high premium.
Currently capitalists hold sway, but socialists have cut into the $$$$ game, and deep.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:44 pm to CelticDog
quote:
Society must decide whether money rules or some other value.
Freedom should rule. Freedom from you forcing me to pay for your healthcare by government fiat.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:45 pm to CelticDog
quote:
I answered this yesterday.
No one gives a shite, commie.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:47 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
It's really a question of whether you want a civilized society or an every-man-for-himself anarchy like prehistoric humans had and wild animals still have. One price of civilization is pooling resources for the common good.
oh
my
good
lord
that's the level of discourse on this subject that i expect out of middle school children
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:47 pm to CelticDog
quote:
Currently capitalists hold sway, but socialists have cut into the $$$$ game, and deep.
You know, you virtue signaling dweebs could pony up and pay for PECs yourselves...but alas, you don't.
Virtue signaling, it turns out, isn't really virtuous.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 1:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
Look at his location. He gets the talking points before everyone else.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 2:24 pm to roadGator
This thread is useful.
Adolescents want freedom from daddy.
Adults cooperate.
The daddy party vs the mommy party.
So be it.
You adolescent freedom lovers are fine making me pay taxes for war materials instead of free college and free medical.
Adolescents want freedom from daddy.
Adults cooperate.
The daddy party vs the mommy party.
So be it.
You adolescent freedom lovers are fine making me pay taxes for war materials instead of free college and free medical.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 2:28 pm
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