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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:47 am to roadGator
quote:
Which prisoners would you release by ignoring which laws?
How many would that be?
I may agree with you.
Drug possession, drug sales, for starters.
Most non violent crimes dont keep the public "safe" by incarcerating the perps. They are incarcerated for retribution.
By legalizing transactions, you are essentially taking most possibilities for violence out of the equation. Think pre/post prohibition.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:50 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
Decriminalize what?
I'm open to hearing suggestions from the side that wants to decriminalize.
For me, I'd let go of punishing folks for smoking weed but I wouldn't want employers to be forced to hire weed smokers if they didn't want to do so.
I'm not sure crank, meth and other "hard" drugs should be legalized though.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:50 am to NYNolaguy1
How many prisoners get released in your scenario? Is it enough to satisfy you?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:52 am to roadGator
quote:
That's why I asked the question.
What evidence do you have that suggests higher incarceration rates lead to more crime?
I am also open to numbers and not just emotion.
I think we could agree that of this population, not all pose a danger to public safety.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:53 am to roadGator
quote:
How many prisoners get released in your scenario? Is it enough to satisfy you?
As few as possible. I can think of a million different and better ways to spend my tax dollars than locking people up unneccessarily.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:54 am to NYNolaguy1
How do you think your chart is evidence that higher incarceration rates lead to a higher crime rate?
I'm really trying to understand.
I'm really trying to understand.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:54 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
As few as possible.
So you don't want many released from the prison system currently?
I'm so confused.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:55 am to roadGator
quote:
For me, I'd let go of punishing folks for smoking weed but I wouldn't want employers to be forced to hire weed smokers if they didn't want to do so.
Sorry, explain to me what that has to do with the discussion. I thought we were discussing the incarceration rate? I don't want employers "to be forced to hire weed smokers" either. Employers should be able to hire and fire who they want but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:56 am to roadGator
quote:
How do you think your chart is evidence that higher incarceration rates lead to a higher crime rate?
It's not. Thats a whole different topic. But there are all sorts of charts that say a person incarcerated is much more likely to end up in prison again. I think we agree that's a bad thing.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 10:57 am to roadGator
quote:
So you don't want many released from the prison system currently?
My point from the beginning was two fold:
1)That we incarcerate far more than necessary to keep the public safe.
2)That by incarcerating this many people it amplifies the crime rate.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:26 am to SlapahoeTribe
quote:
No sentence should be longer than 18 years. In 18 years we go from a crying infant to a completely independent human being; so that should be enough time for someone to change who they are. If you're willing to throw someone in prison for longer than that, then I say just strap them into Old Sparky and flip the switch.
Or anything over 18 years have them compete in gladiator type games. Charge a pay-per-view and use that money to rebuild roads, bridges, etc.
If you survive X number of games then you are set free.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:28 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
That by incarcerating this many people it amplifies the crime rate.
How?
I previously asked you how many of the currently incarcerated do you want to be released. We both like numbers, no? So, how many do you want to be released?
You responded with the number in prison chart.
How many of those should be released and which law that they broke should be ignored?
What is your list of non-violent crimes that shouldn't lead to prison time? Are other people allowed to add crimes to your list?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:34 am to roadGator
quote:
I previously asked you how many of the currently incarcerated do you want to be released. We both like numbers, no? So, how many do you want to be released?
On the flipside, do you think the fact that 4% of the population represents 22% of the prison population to be a good thing? And save me any demographic argument because it doesn't come close to accounting for those numbers. Are we just that much worse than the rest of the world?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:54 am to roadGator
quote:
How many of those should be released and which law that they broke should be ignored?
I am more in favor of changing laws than just releasing prisoners. As said earlier drug laws desperately need to be changed regarding prison time.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 11:56 am
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:55 am to NYNolaguy1
OK. Let's change the laws then. I think that's the orderly and fair thing to do.
Now what do we do?
Now what do we do?
Posted on 9/21/17 at 11:57 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
On the flipside, do you think the fact that 4% of the population represents 22% of the prison population to be a good thing?
It's neither a good thing or a bad thing. It just is.
Are you sure the demographics don't significantly change the percentages? I have not done the math myself.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:01 pm to roadGator
quote:
Now what do we do?
Try to figure out which crimes that criminals commit pose a public safefy hazard. That was the purpose of the pie chart I posted.
A good chunk of that chart wasnt even for people convicted, but for people awaiting trial.
Bond/bail reform is another big part of this.
This post was edited on 9/21/17 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:11 pm to roadGator
quote:
Are you sure the demographics don't significantly change the percentages?
Depends on how you want to bend the stats. If you eliminate all other races, the US incarcerates 450 white men per 100,000. That alone keeps us in first place.
Posted on 9/21/17 at 12:13 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The prison rates for black people and Hispanic people are the top two in the world and the rates for white people are tied for 9th highest in the world. I'd argue that there is a big problem with over-incarceration in the US
Right on with the numbers. It's obvious that what we have is a major problem with minorities who can't conform to legal standards. 1 out of 6 black men will spend time in jail in their life time. 1 in 22 white men will do so. That's not because the justice system is racist my friend.
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