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Ownership of a college degree is a poor proxy for intelligence, imo
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:08 am
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:08 am
In our political discourse, we often separate intelligence and overall education levels based on whether or not people are college graduates. I have big problems with this line of thinking.
1) such thinking inherently condemns the vast majority of people who lived in the past to the "unintelligent" bin. Soldiers, merchants, workers, and most people who lived before the 60s/70s did not go to college. They simply did not need to to earn a decent living. Yet using degrees as a proxy for intelligence, all these people are stupid. That's simply not the case.
2) such thinking vastly overstates the typical college learning experience. Outside of top schools, most people go to school because it's an economic necessity in the 21st century. People will study what they need to study in their GE classes, not giving a shite about the actual knowledge, only passing the class. Shortly after the class is over, they'll forget what they learned. Does anyone really think a sorority girl from Mississippi state is more smart than a general store owner from 1921?
3) The reason why college degrees are used as a proxy for intelligence is because liberals know that most colleges are very liberal. This, they can firmly connect intelligence to liberal thinking. If colleges were conservative, you'd see less of this proxy being used
1) such thinking inherently condemns the vast majority of people who lived in the past to the "unintelligent" bin. Soldiers, merchants, workers, and most people who lived before the 60s/70s did not go to college. They simply did not need to to earn a decent living. Yet using degrees as a proxy for intelligence, all these people are stupid. That's simply not the case.
2) such thinking vastly overstates the typical college learning experience. Outside of top schools, most people go to school because it's an economic necessity in the 21st century. People will study what they need to study in their GE classes, not giving a shite about the actual knowledge, only passing the class. Shortly after the class is over, they'll forget what they learned. Does anyone really think a sorority girl from Mississippi state is more smart than a general store owner from 1921?
3) The reason why college degrees are used as a proxy for intelligence is because liberals know that most colleges are very liberal. This, they can firmly connect intelligence to liberal thinking. If colleges were conservative, you'd see less of this proxy being used
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Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:09 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
I know some dumb people who've graduated from college and some insanely intelligent people who didn't.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:10 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
It's propaganda to drum up business for state colleges.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:10 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
The way I look at a simple college degree, not graduate, is more of a test that proves someone can complete something that takes several years and isn't exactly a walk in the park.
Doesn't mean you're brilliant, just means you can accomplish a task after starting it.
Doesn't mean you're brilliant, just means you can accomplish a task after starting it.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:12 am to Deuces
My grandfather is such an example. He earned a good living As a steel salesman in Saginaw and never went to college, yet the guy was an absolute literature freak. Owned a library and had thousands of books in his house. He could tell you anything about high literature and classic works, from Greek plays to Faulkner.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:13 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Does anyone really think a sorority girl from Mississippi state is more smart than a general store owner from 1921?
Are you saying that's impossible?
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:14 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
on an individual basis, I would agree
but on average, I'm confident that a person with a college degree is going to be more intelligent than a person without
and that has less to do with the actual attendance of college, and more to do with the demographics of people that do not attend college these days
but on average, I'm confident that a person with a college degree is going to be more intelligent than a person without
and that has less to do with the actual attendance of college, and more to do with the demographics of people that do not attend college these days
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:15 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Well equating education with intelligence is a fallacy (fallacy of division; specifically, ecological fallacy). In other words, assuming a person without a degree is less intelligent that those with one, would be fallacious reasoning; however, ON AVERAGE, the relationship exists.
In our political discourse, we often separate intelligence and overall education levels based on whether or not people are college graduates. I have big problems with this line of thinking.
On the other hand, ignoring that would be the opposite fallacy (fallacy of composition).
quote:I disagree that this is the primary reason. Intelligence is essentially he ability to learn; therefore, the just representative example of learning is the education system.
The reason why college degrees are used as a proxy for intelligence is because liberals know that most colleges are very liberal. This, they can firmly connect intelligence to liberal thinking. If colleges were conservative, you'd see less of this proxy being used
Of course, it's not the only one, and any career or discipline requires learning, but education is uniquely tailored to specifically targeting learning, and selects for higher intelligence (self-selection; admissions; graduation; etc.).
This post was edited on 3/15/17 at 11:17 am
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:18 am to McCaigBro69
quote:
Doesn't mean you're brilliant, just means you can accomplish a task after starting it.
This
Getting a degree doesn't mean you're smart. It means you have the ability to learn which is what employers are looking for.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:21 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Now you're using the same problematic reasoning that you're arguing against.
Does anyone really think a sorority girl from Mississippi state is more smart than a general store owner from 1921?
In other words, the average general store owner, could have very well been smarter than the average sorority girl. But there would still be overlap, so plenty of INDIVIDUALS, would not represent the broader phenomenon.
Not to mention, each successive generation over the last century was found to be more intelligent than the previous (Flynn Effect), so that complicates things in your comparison as well.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:22 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
I don't own one and I'm more smarter than most of the people that do.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:24 am to Salmon
quote:
but on average, I'm confident that a person with a college degree is going to be more intelligent than a person without
I think this is the main point. Certainly, there are some very dumb college graduates and some very intelligent people who didn't finish 3rd grade. However, on average, college graduates are more intelligent than non-college graduates.
This is especially true in regards to specific subjects. The example used about the grandfather being an expert in classic literature is a great anecdote, and it sounds like he probably knew more about the classics than most. However, if you had a literature test and compared results of people with classical literature degrees to people without classical literature degrees, those with the degrees would certainly do better, on average, than those without.
It's more about gaining knowledge than actually being more intelligent.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:25 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:I'm finding new things to address every time I read it.
Soldiers, merchants, workers, and most people who lived before the 60s/70s did not go to college. They simply did not need to to earn a decent living. Yet using degrees as a proxy for intelligence, all these people are stupid. That's simply not the case.
But you're absolutely right that the necessity, even opportunity, to obtain a college degree varies across generations. Therefore, this weakens the between-generation comparison. Conversely the relationship is stronger in the within-generation comparison though.
This post was edited on 3/15/17 at 2:19 pm
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:27 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
such thinking inherently condemns the vast majority of people who lived in the past to the "unintelligent" bin. Soldiers, merchants, workers, and most people who lived before the 60s/70s did not go to college. They simply did not need to to earn a decent living. Yet using degrees as a proxy for intelligence, all these people are stupid. That's simply not the case.
Not stupid. Maybe uneducated, but that's not the same as stupid.
If people talk about the political leanings of the college educated vs the non-college educated, it's not to imply that the non-college educated are stupid. It's because it is an effective metric. If a college education was not at all correlated with how one would vote, no one would discuss it in a political context, because there would be no useful information to be had from it. But it is correlated with how people vote.
quote:
such thinking vastly overstates the typical college learning experience. Outside of top schools, most people go to school because it's an economic necessity in the 21st century. People will study what they need to study in their GE classes, not giving a shite about the actual knowledge, only passing the class. Shortly after the class is over, they'll forget what they learned. Does anyone really think a sorority girl from Mississippi state is more smart than a general store owner from 1921?
No, and that's an apples to oranges comparison anyway.
quote:
The reason why college degrees are used as a proxy for intelligence is because liberals know that most colleges are very liberal. This, they can firmly connect intelligence to liberal thinking. If colleges were conservative, you'd see less of this proxy being used
Yeah, because conservatives NEVER take a condescending tone when talking about how minorities are more likely to vote democrat. Wow, y'all will just find any excuse to play the victim card.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:29 am to Tigereye10005
quote:Oh no doubt people who have degrees are more intelligent in their specific subject than people who don't have a degree in that subject. That was what I was trying to get at a bit in my OP.
This is especially true in regards to specific subjects.
But on the same token, a business owner who did not go to college is likely smarter in the specific subject of business than, say, a humanities major.
My point can be summed up like this: A college graduate has much more knowledge than non-college graduates in the subject they received a degree in. A non-college graduate is much more knowledgeable about the subject of their career than a college graduate.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:31 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
My point can be summed up like this: A college graduate has much more knowledge than non-college graduates in the subject they received a degree in. A non-college graduate is much more knowledgeable about the subject of their career than a college graduate.
how doe this relate to overall intelligence though?
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:31 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
I'd advise young folks to instead learn a trade like carpentry, electrician/HVAC, plumbing, etc. There will always be a demand, solid pay, and you can eventually be your own boss.
Few years of apprenticeship is all that's needed.
Few years of apprenticeship is all that's needed.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:32 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Soldiers, merchants, workers, and most people who lived before the 60s/70s did not go to college.
The majority of adults today do not have college degrees, and while 65% of those graduating high school today will go to college, only half will finish.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:32 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
People will study what they need to study in their GE classes, not giving a shite about the actual knowledge, only passing the class. Shortly after the class is over, they'll forget what they learned. Does anyone really think a sorority girl from Mississippi state is more smart than a general store owner from 1921?
If you're a STEM major, yes. Generally speaking they learn real things that directly apply to what they do in the workplace and a greater understanding to how things function.
Posted on 3/15/17 at 11:34 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Colleges used to be " the keeper of knowledge" . Now a simple google search will give you every possible perspective on every possible topic. If you want lectures, they are there. If you want to deconstruct a subject, it's right there. The idea that knowledge is conferred upon a candidate only by being physically present for a lecture from an anointed person is an antiquated notion. We are still using an outdated paradigm because degree mills are an industry.
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