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Started By
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re: NYT smears Rand Paul, LvMI, Rockwell, Rothbard, Spooner, Block as racists.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:15 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:15 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
Liberals truly believe that a belief in small government equals racism.
1
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:22 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I'm a liberal and I don't believe that. Nor does the article say that.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:23 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:It's implied.
I'm a liberal and I don't believe that. Nor does the article say that.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:30 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
No, it's not. The article simply states the fact that libertarianism is associated with some dubious ideological positions, including neo-confederate apologetics. Even someone like Block reveals some of the faultlines in this line of argument when he feels the need to defend the brutality of slavery with a bit of fantastical revisionism.
And these associations are an interesting and worthwhile story, since, as the article points out, Rand's 2016 competition will bring them up against him in the presidential primary.
I think the article accurately presents Rand Paul as the interesting and complicated figure he is (and someone much more attractive than the likes of Ted Cruz), whose national campaign will be saddled by the complicated and occasionally distasteful legacy of the libertarian movement.
And these associations are an interesting and worthwhile story, since, as the article points out, Rand's 2016 competition will bring them up against him in the presidential primary.
I think the article accurately presents Rand Paul as the interesting and complicated figure he is (and someone much more attractive than the likes of Ted Cruz), whose national campaign will be saddled by the complicated and occasionally distasteful legacy of the libertarian movement.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:42 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
I think the article accurately presents Rand Paul as the interesting and complicated figure he is
That's simply not true. Paul does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as guys like Spooner or Rothbard. Rand has nothing in common with them. He has abandoned any sense of his father's philosophical Libertarianism (If he ever had it).
If you want to go after Rand as a racist, focus on his association with Jack Hunter (Who isn't a racist, no matter how they try to make it seem).
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:47 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:What are you talking about. The article is ridiculous. Hell the authors cannot even bear to address the man's name appropriately.
I think the article accurately presents Rand Paul as the interesting and complicated figure he is
Mr. Paul?
Seriously?
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:49 pm to Bayou Sam
Rand has nothing in common with Rothbard or even Spooner who are straight up anarchists. NYT is way off base here.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:53 pm to Sentrius
As are Block and Rockwell and the rest of the LvMI. Rand has never associated with them. His father on the other hand was close with all of them (Other than Spooner obviously).
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:55 pm to Sentrius
Rand mentioned Spooner himself in his filibuster. And it's silly to say that Rand has "nothing in common" with Rothbard. Just because Paul is more pragmatic than many other libertarians, and perhaps more moderate in his principles as well, doesn't mean he isn't profoundly influenced by Rothbard.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:57 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
Rand mentioned Spooner himself in his filibuster.
well that certainly ends that debate, he MENTIONED the man for christs sake - clearly hes cut from the same cloth
Posted on 1/26/14 at 4:59 pm to jcole4lsu
quote:Hopefully he didn't mention Thomas Jefferson, else he'll be associated with pro-slavers.
well that certainly ends that debate, he MENTIONED the man for christs sake - clearly hes cut from the same cloth
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:01 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:Did he bring up Emporer Obama?
well that certainly ends that debate, he MENTIONED the man for christs sake - clearly hes cut from the same clothHopefully he didn't mention Thomas Jefferson, else he'll be associated with pro-slavers.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:03 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
His father on the other hand was close with all of them
I actually suspect that Ron is a closet anarchist.
quote:
(Other than Spooner obviously).
Spooner is a left anarchist. IIRC, he isn't fond of capitalism at all.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:03 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
And it's silly to say that Rand has "nothing in common" with Rothbard. Just because Paul is more pragmatic than many other libertarians, and perhaps more moderate in his principles as well, doesn't mean he isn't profoundly influenced by Rothbard.
Rand doesn't have anything in common with Rothbard.
And Rothbard's whole criticism comes from being pragmatic (Working with the New Left in the 60s and the Paleocons in the 90s, supporting H.W. Bush for president, et cetra).
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:04 pm to Sentrius
quote:
I actually suspect that Ron is a closet anarchist.
Tom Woods interviewed Ron about it and Ron said as he's gotten older he finds less and less personal opposition to Anarcho-Capitalism but that he is still a Minarchist.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:04 pm to jcole4lsu
Well, what a reasonable comment! One poster says that Rand has "nothing in common" with Spooner, I point out that Rand mentions Spooner himself as an authority, and you come along to inform me that I have erred in logic, because mentioning someone as an authority does not imply complete agreement. I believe this is called an equivocation.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:06 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
Well, what a reasonable comment! One poster says that Rand has "nothing in common" with Spooner, I point out that Rand mentions Spooner himself as an authority, and you come along to inform me that I have erred in logic, because mentioning someone as an authority does not imply complete agreement. I believe this is called an equivocation.
Rand has nothing in common with Spooner, an outspoken Anarchist who fought the state at every turn (Starting a successful mail business, practicing law without a license, fighting slavery, et cetra).
If you can point me a view that Rand and Spooner have that is in common, I'll digress.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:11 pm to joshnorris14
Since when does having an intellectual influence mean you have to follow someone like holy scripture?
quote:
Rand Paul describes Mr. Rothbard in his first book as “a great influence on my thinking” when he was a young man.
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:14 pm to joshnorris14
They are both anti-slavery. 
Posted on 1/26/14 at 5:14 pm to Bayou Sam
quote:
Since when does having an intellectual influence mean you have to follow someone like holy scripture?
Didn't you just accuse someone of using equivocation?
I disagree with Spooner a lot, but it would be fair to say I'm influenced by him. To say Rand is influenced by Spooner would be like saying I'm influeced by Locke.
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