- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
New Yorker: "Was the American Revolution such a good idea?"
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:14 pm
SIAP
I'm not gonna lie. It's fricking long, and though Mr. Gopnik ( ) makes some fair points, I think the greater issue here is the growing intellectual attacks on the Founders, and how the walk from "remove the confederacy" to "remove the Founders" is not too far.
All men have flaws, sometimes very big ones. All you have to do is dig far enough. Just remember that the people tearing down the Founders would prefer we be ruled by the kinds of men who have subjugated, impoverished, starved and murdered millions upon millions of their own people.
LINK
quote:
The Revolution, this argument might run, was a needless and brutal bit of slaveholders’ panic mixed with Enlightenment argle-bargle, producing a country that was always marked for violence and disruption and demagogy.
quote:$10 says he had a boner while writing this.
No revolution, and slavery might have ended, as it did elsewhere in the British Empire, more peacefully and sooner. No “peculiar institution,” no hideous Civil War and appalling aftermath. Instead, an orderly development of the interior—less violent, and less inclined to celebrate the desperado over the peaceful peasant. We could have ended with a social-democratic commonwealth that stretched from north to south, a near-continent-wide Canada
quote:
The Revolution remains the last bulwark of national myth. Academics write on the growth of the Founding Father biographical genre in our time; the rule for any new writer should be that if you want a Pulitzer and a best-seller you must find a Founding Father and fetishize him. While no longer reverential, these accounts are always heroic in the core sense of showing us men, and now, occasionally, women, who transcend their flaws with spirit (though these flaws may include little things like holding other human beings as property, dividing their families, and selling off their children).
quote:
It was a group of men who, in spirit and psychology, were not entirely unlike the “reformers” in Communist China, open to change for the purpose of reinforcing their own power in an intact hierarchy.
quote:That must be why America committed no aggressive action against "the English speaking world" after the war ended and to this day. Good point, Beau Rivage.
No one at the time, du Rivage suggests, saw what was happening as pitting a distinct “American” nation against an alien British one. Participants largely saw the conflict in terms of two parties fighting for dominance in the English-speaking world.
I'm not gonna lie. It's fricking long, and though Mr. Gopnik ( ) makes some fair points, I think the greater issue here is the growing intellectual attacks on the Founders, and how the walk from "remove the confederacy" to "remove the Founders" is not too far.
All men have flaws, sometimes very big ones. All you have to do is dig far enough. Just remember that the people tearing down the Founders would prefer we be ruled by the kinds of men who have subjugated, impoverished, starved and murdered millions upon millions of their own people.
LINK
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:15 pm to blueboy
I'm a monarchist by nature myself.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:20 pm to blueboy
The ultimate goal is to walk away from the constitution by removing the legitimacy of the writers
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:20 pm to blueboy
The one fault I find with our Founders' decision to revolt was to blame it on taxation. The taxes levied by the British were really small compared to the taxes our govt levies on us today.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:20 pm to blueboy
Not even remotely surprising. It is right out of the playbook.
This is their play: keep chipping away at the foundations of America until you can completely subvert it and remove pesky things like the Constitution in order to achieve your end goals, which is to unilaterally enact what they believe to be "right and wrong".
This is their play: keep chipping away at the foundations of America until you can completely subvert it and remove pesky things like the Constitution in order to achieve your end goals, which is to unilaterally enact what they believe to be "right and wrong".
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:24 pm to Zach
quote:
The one fault I find with our Founders' decision to revolt was to blame it on taxation.
Taxation without representation.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:27 pm to blueboy
Only reading the passages you quoted: This is tomfoolery which completely disregards the motivations for settlement past the Appalachians. Without the revolution, the Louisiana Purchase doesn't happen, the Mexican American war doesn't happen, and the USA is a third (at most) of its current size, with everything west of Appalachia a giant Northern Mexico. Who comes to the allies rescue then? Who fends off Japan and Germany?
What a short sided alternate history idiot.
What a short sided alternate history idiot.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:29 pm to blueboy
Also: it is not a coincidence that only a few decades after losing their largest economic incentivized area for slavery, the brits outlawed slavery. That would not have happened so easily and nicely for them if they still had a number of colonies which depended on them.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:29 pm to Stingray
quote:
Taxation without representation.
You're right. But now we have representation and our representatives use taxes to redistribute wealth. That was never foreseen by the founders.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:30 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
This is their play: keep chipping away at the foundations of America until you can completely subvert it and remove pesky things like the Constitution in order to achieve your end goals, which is to unilaterally enact what they believe to be "right and wrong".
Their sense of self-worth/intelligence/moral superiority is nauseating.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:32 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
I'm a monarchist by nature myself.
By the time of the American Revolution, Great Britian was already more heavily influenced by Parliament than the Crown. Thanks, Cromwell, you fricking a-hole.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:32 pm to Zach
quote:
The taxes levied by the British were really small compared to the taxes our govt levies on us today.
In reality, back then they were relatively modest in terms of the impact it would have on most of the colonists. The place it hit the hardest was New England and its shipping industry....and its smuggling economy.... all of the taxes that were levied basically were going to put guys like Hancock... and most of Boston and Rhode Island out of business.
The British, though started to over react to what really amounted to Sam Adams and a few others who just liked to cause mostly a lot of noise.....When they occupied Boston and put it under martial law it pretty much turned places like Virginia and Pennsylvania against the crown.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:35 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Also: it is not a coincidence that only a few decades after losing their largest economic incentivized area for slavery, the brits outlawed slavery. That would not have happened so easily and nicely for them if they still had a number of colonies which depended on them.
That, and it wasn't nearly as bloodless as he's depicting. Jamaica (basically the only other British colony with widespread slavery) had four major slave revolts in the span of about eighty years. All of them were brutal, and then, in turn, brutally suppressed.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:38 pm to blueboy
What is the craze all of the sudden with slavery?
JHC no one has been a slave for 4 generations.
With the average American turning into limp-wristed European types, the next thing we know, white people will be in chains to make reparations.
Move on.
JHC no one has been a slave for 4 generations.
With the average American turning into limp-wristed European types, the next thing we know, white people will be in chains to make reparations.
Move on.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:38 pm to blueboy
quote:
I think the greater issue here is the growing intellectual attacks on the Founders
Its more than that. The left hates America and everything it stands for.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:41 pm to blueboy
A fricking journalist is going to lecture me on why the Revolution was a mistake?
Get fricked jackass.
shite like this is why most journalists need to be shot. They think their shitty journalism degree makes them an expert on everything.
Get fricked jackass.
shite like this is why most journalists need to be shot. They think their shitty journalism degree makes them an expert on everything.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:44 pm to blueboy
quote:
Instead, an orderly development of the interior—less violent, and less inclined to celebrate the desperado over the peaceful peasant.
this is absurd
at what point in any nation's history was the conquering of the indigenous people "orderly" and "less violent"?
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:50 pm to HempHead
quote:He really was one of history's great frickheads. He made everyone get those stupid haircuts, murdered a Pope, etc. Thanks a lot, you piece of crap.
Thanks, Cromwell, you fricking a-hole.
This post was edited on 5/9/17 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:53 pm to blueboy
Although, his tenure was one of the reasons part of my family immigrated to America, so I guess I can't be too pissy about it. Still, it'd be rad to inherit plots in Yorkshire and Northumberland, that roundhead fricker.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:54 pm to blueboy
His argument is much like the one most people give when they decry Confederate imagery - a focus on the leaders, not the citizenry.
Maybe, just maybe, the Founding Fathers were terrible people. In all likelihood, though, they were just men. Smart men, dumb men, good men, evil men - or none of the above. Human beings are rarely in easily digestible packages. Perhaps they had selfish motivations mixed in with unselfish ones. We cannot know what their absolute reasons were, and we still wouldn't know if they were alive today and we asked them.
We can only look back at what they created and see how it was used - for good, or for ill. I think the good far outweighs the ill, IMHO.
Were the Founding Fathers perfect? Were they gods? No, of course not. Were they demons? Were they evil? No, of course not.
Were they flawed human beings, like the rest of us? Yes.
You could argue that America has done the world harm, but I read history and see that the good has far outweighed the harm it has done. Of course, one must avoid putting on blinders and only seeing the good or the bad. This writer only sees the bad, and for that his logic is horribly flawed.
Maybe, just maybe, the Founding Fathers were terrible people. In all likelihood, though, they were just men. Smart men, dumb men, good men, evil men - or none of the above. Human beings are rarely in easily digestible packages. Perhaps they had selfish motivations mixed in with unselfish ones. We cannot know what their absolute reasons were, and we still wouldn't know if they were alive today and we asked them.
We can only look back at what they created and see how it was used - for good, or for ill. I think the good far outweighs the ill, IMHO.
Were the Founding Fathers perfect? Were they gods? No, of course not. Were they demons? Were they evil? No, of course not.
Were they flawed human beings, like the rest of us? Yes.
You could argue that America has done the world harm, but I read history and see that the good has far outweighed the harm it has done. Of course, one must avoid putting on blinders and only seeing the good or the bad. This writer only sees the bad, and for that his logic is horribly flawed.
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News