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New Yorker: "Was the American Revolution such a good idea?"

Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:14 pm
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56359 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:14 pm
SIAP
quote:

The Revolution, this argument might run, was a needless and brutal bit of slaveholders’ panic mixed with Enlightenment argle-bargle, producing a country that was always marked for violence and disruption and demagogy.
quote:

No revolution, and slavery might have ended, as it did elsewhere in the British Empire, more peacefully and sooner. No “peculiar institution,” no hideous Civil War and appalling aftermath. Instead, an orderly development of the interior—less violent, and less inclined to celebrate the desperado over the peaceful peasant. We could have ended with a social-democratic commonwealth that stretched from north to south, a near-continent-wide Canada
$10 says he had a boner while writing this.
quote:

The Revolution remains the last bulwark of national myth. Academics write on the growth of the Founding Father biographical genre in our time; the rule for any new writer should be that if you want a Pulitzer and a best-seller you must find a Founding Father and fetishize him. While no longer reverential, these accounts are always heroic in the core sense of showing us men, and now, occasionally, women, who transcend their flaws with spirit (though these flaws may include little things like holding other human beings as property, dividing their families, and selling off their children).
quote:

It was a group of men who, in spirit and psychology, were not entirely unlike the “reformers” in Communist China, open to change for the purpose of reinforcing their own power in an intact hierarchy.
quote:

No one at the time, du Rivage suggests, saw what was happening as pitting a distinct “American” nation against an alien British one. Participants largely saw the conflict in terms of two parties fighting for dominance in the English-speaking world.
That must be why America committed no aggressive action against "the English speaking world" after the war ended and to this day. Good point, Beau Rivage.

I'm not gonna lie. It's fricking long, and though Mr. Gopnik ( ) makes some fair points, I think the greater issue here is the growing intellectual attacks on the Founders, and how the walk from "remove the confederacy" to "remove the Founders" is not too far.

All men have flaws, sometimes very big ones. All you have to do is dig far enough. Just remember that the people tearing down the Founders would prefer we be ruled by the kinds of men who have subjugated, impoverished, starved and murdered millions upon millions of their own people.

LINK
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
58779 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:15 pm to
I'm a monarchist by nature myself.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:20 pm to
The ultimate goal is to walk away from the constitution by removing the legitimacy of the writers
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
112489 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:20 pm to
The one fault I find with our Founders' decision to revolt was to blame it on taxation. The taxes levied by the British were really small compared to the taxes our govt levies on us today.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
115901 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:20 pm to
Not even remotely surprising. It is right out of the playbook.

This is their play: keep chipping away at the foundations of America until you can completely subvert it and remove pesky things like the Constitution in order to achieve your end goals, which is to unilaterally enact what they believe to be "right and wrong".
Posted by Stingray
Shreveport
Member since Sep 2007
12420 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

The one fault I find with our Founders' decision to revolt was to blame it on taxation.




Taxation without representation.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:27 pm to
Only reading the passages you quoted: This is tomfoolery which completely disregards the motivations for settlement past the Appalachians. Without the revolution, the Louisiana Purchase doesn't happen, the Mexican American war doesn't happen, and the USA is a third (at most) of its current size, with everything west of Appalachia a giant Northern Mexico. Who comes to the allies rescue then? Who fends off Japan and Germany?

What a short sided alternate history idiot.
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:29 pm to
Also: it is not a coincidence that only a few decades after losing their largest economic incentivized area for slavery, the brits outlawed slavery. That would not have happened so easily and nicely for them if they still had a number of colonies which depended on them.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
112489 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

Taxation without representation.


You're right. But now we have representation and our representatives use taxes to redistribute wealth. That was never foreseen by the founders.
Posted by Choupique19
The cheap seats
Member since Sep 2005
61839 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

This is their play: keep chipping away at the foundations of America until you can completely subvert it and remove pesky things like the Constitution in order to achieve your end goals, which is to unilaterally enact what they believe to be "right and wrong".



Their sense of self-worth/intelligence/moral superiority is nauseating.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55480 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

I'm a monarchist by nature myself.



By the time of the American Revolution, Great Britian was already more heavily influenced by Parliament than the Crown. Thanks, Cromwell, you fricking a-hole.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27544 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

The taxes levied by the British were really small compared to the taxes our govt levies on us today.


In reality, back then they were relatively modest in terms of the impact it would have on most of the colonists. The place it hit the hardest was New England and its shipping industry....and its smuggling economy.... all of the taxes that were levied basically were going to put guys like Hancock... and most of Boston and Rhode Island out of business.

The British, though started to over react to what really amounted to Sam Adams and a few others who just liked to cause mostly a lot of noise.....When they occupied Boston and put it under martial law it pretty much turned places like Virginia and Pennsylvania against the crown.
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8004 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

Also: it is not a coincidence that only a few decades after losing their largest economic incentivized area for slavery, the brits outlawed slavery. That would not have happened so easily and nicely for them if they still had a number of colonies which depended on them.


That, and it wasn't nearly as bloodless as he's depicting. Jamaica (basically the only other British colony with widespread slavery) had four major slave revolts in the span of about eighty years. All of them were brutal, and then, in turn, brutally suppressed.
Posted by RFK
Squire Creek
Member since May 2012
1321 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:38 pm to
What is the craze all of the sudden with slavery?

JHC no one has been a slave for 4 generations.

With the average American turning into limp-wristed European types, the next thing we know, white people will be in chains to make reparations.

Move on.
Posted by Brosef Stalin
Member since Dec 2011
39205 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

I think the greater issue here is the growing intellectual attacks on the Founders

Its more than that. The left hates America and everything it stands for.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
43337 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:41 pm to
A fricking journalist is going to lecture me on why the Revolution was a mistake?

Get fricked jackass.

shite like this is why most journalists need to be shot. They think their shitty journalism degree makes them an expert on everything.
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83583 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

Instead, an orderly development of the interior—less violent, and less inclined to celebrate the desperado over the peaceful peasant.


this is absurd

at what point in any nation's history was the conquering of the indigenous people "orderly" and "less violent"?
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56359 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

Thanks, Cromwell, you fricking a-hole.
He really was one of history's great frickheads. He made everyone get those stupid haircuts, murdered a Pope, etc. Thanks a lot, you piece of crap.
This post was edited on 5/9/17 at 3:22 pm
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55480 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:53 pm to
Although, his tenure was one of the reasons part of my family immigrated to America, so I guess I can't be too pissy about it. Still, it'd be rad to inherit plots in Yorkshire and Northumberland, that roundhead fricker.
Posted by skrayper
21-0 Asterisk Drive
Member since Nov 2012
30889 posts
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:54 pm to
His argument is much like the one most people give when they decry Confederate imagery - a focus on the leaders, not the citizenry.

Maybe, just maybe, the Founding Fathers were terrible people. In all likelihood, though, they were just men. Smart men, dumb men, good men, evil men - or none of the above. Human beings are rarely in easily digestible packages. Perhaps they had selfish motivations mixed in with unselfish ones. We cannot know what their absolute reasons were, and we still wouldn't know if they were alive today and we asked them.

We can only look back at what they created and see how it was used - for good, or for ill. I think the good far outweighs the ill, IMHO.

Were the Founding Fathers perfect? Were they gods? No, of course not. Were they demons? Were they evil? No, of course not.

Were they flawed human beings, like the rest of us? Yes.

You could argue that America has done the world harm, but I read history and see that the good has far outweighed the harm it has done. Of course, one must avoid putting on blinders and only seeing the good or the bad. This writer only sees the bad, and for that his logic is horribly flawed.
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