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Message
re: New video surfaces of PP talking about performing Abortions
Posted on 3/29/17 at 2:57 pm to Gaspergou202
Posted on 3/29/17 at 2:57 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
It was legal for Spartans to throw living imperfect infants into the garbage for centuries, and yet it still went somewhere else. It once was legal to sell people for millennia, and that went somewhere too. Don't be so smug in your immoral convictions.
Yep. There were societies where Sandusky's actions were legal. I guess that means he should go free?
0
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:03 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Tell me when I am wrong when I say every advance that has come from fetal tissue research could have come by other means.
"How do scientists use fetal tissue?
It's used to find potential treatments for a wide range of common diseases and afflictions, including cancer, diabetes, birth defects, HIV, multiple sclerosis, ALS, and Alzheimer's. Unlike adult tissue cells, fetal tissue cells can be manipulated into almost any kind of tissue, are less likely to be rejected by a host, and have the capacity to replicate rapidly — making them perfect for analysis into how diseases work. They are also being tried as actual treatments for Parkinson's disease, spinal cord injuries, and diabetes, with researchers injecting fetal cells directly into organs in hopes of regenerating them. Fetal tissue was also a vital component in the development of vaccines for polio, chicken pox, rubella, and shingles. The polio vaccine alone saves 550,000 lives a year. Alta Charo, a bioethicist at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, says fetal tissue research has benefited "virtually every person in this country."
quote:
There is no "demand" for fetal tissue research except by those that do not want to do research other ways. (Not sure if you are talking about stem cell, or in general)
"Are there any alternatives?
Yes, though imperfect ones. Cells from umbilical cord blood have been used in some studies. Fetal tissue can be extracted from miscarriages — but there's far too little of such tissue to supply scientific demand."
LINK
If you get diagnosed with Parkinson's down the road would you refuse treatment if the cure came from aborted fetal tissue cells?
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:04 pm to gamatt53
quote:
One is legal and happens thousands of times a day. One is illegal.
Which is why he asked if you saw any moral differences and why? We are all waiting for your answer.
I would like to see your answer for all his questions. Surely you have an opinion and can state that opinion?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:06 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
Which is why he asked if you saw any moral differences and why? We are all waiting for your answer.
I would like to see your answer for all his questions. Surely you have an opinion and can state that opinion?
I'll give my answer after you answer why you all are ok with biomedical research companies creating a market for aborted fetuses. Why is all the outrage directed at PP and none at the biomedical research companies?
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:17 pm to gamatt53
Lets just agree to disagree. This is far too sensitive a subject for me to debate. We'll call it a day so we can keep from killing each other! 
FWIW, I understand why Parkinson's Disease research is so important. I realize the strides that have been made due to the research you are advocating. My grandfather died of Parkinson's when I was just a kid, and long before they made many of the strides that were made.
In all honesty, though? I think he would have refused the modern medicines if he had had access to them and he knew how the medicines were achieved. He was truly a man of honor and integrity that way.
Gotta run. You guys have fun arguing and try to keep everybody in the discussion alive!
FWIW, I understand why Parkinson's Disease research is so important. I realize the strides that have been made due to the research you are advocating. My grandfather died of Parkinson's when I was just a kid, and long before they made many of the strides that were made.
In all honesty, though? I think he would have refused the modern medicines if he had had access to them and he knew how the medicines were achieved. He was truly a man of honor and integrity that way.
Gotta run. You guys have fun arguing and try to keep everybody in the discussion alive!
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:18 pm to gamatt53
quote:
Why is all the outrage directed at PP and none at the biomedical research companies?
The outrage toward PP is because they have been caught admitting to selling baby parts for money. That is illegal.
now...gotta go. Sorry I won't see you answer to his questions.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:27 pm to gamatt53
quote:Yes I would. Next question.
If you get diagnosed with Parkinson's down the road would you refuse treatment if the cure came from aborted fetal tissue cells?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:39 pm to DawgsLife
quote:
The outrage toward PP is because they have been caught admitting to selling baby parts for money. That is illegal.
Legally you are allowed to be "reimbursed" the cost of procurement, storage, and transfer which are variable and negotiable. That means someone is paying them for it (under the guise of reimbursement) and negotiating the price. You can't sell something that no one wants to buy.
Why no outrage at those buyers? Why no undercover video series? Why no headlines?
quote:
Yes I would. Next question.
Well good on ya then. I don't think to many would when faced with the cold hard alternative of a shitty disease like Parkinson's or HIV.
Do you vaccinate yourself or children? Sorry to tell you but you may have compromised your morals already there
"Varicella (chickenpox), rubella, hepatitis A, shingles and one preparation of rabies vaccine are all made by growing the viruses in fetal embryo fibroblast cells. Fibroblast cells are the cells needed to hold skin and other connective tissue together. The fetal embryo fibroblast cells used to grow vaccine viruses were first obtained from elective termination of two pregnancies in the early 1960s. These same embryonic cells obtained from the early 1960s have continued to grow in the laboratory and are used to make vaccines today. No further sources of fetal cells are needed to make these vaccines."
LINK
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:40 pm to gamatt53
Well I have some imagination! As it predicted you dodged with the legal tap dance!
Unlike you I will answer your question "head on"
Q: Why is the outrage directed at PP and none at biomedical research companies?
A: A person was killed last year in a head on collision when a drunk driver crossed the divide. The victim's will donated his body for scientific uses. It ended up at LSU medical school where the medical students used the cadaver for anatomy classes.
I am outraged at the drunken driver for killing an innocent human being. I am equally outraged at PP for killing an innocent human being.
I am happy that some medical use came from tragedy. I am not outraged at LSU, the students, or the biomedical research companies.
I do not advocate drunk driving even though a supply of cadavers that are useful for advancing medicine results. I do not advocate abortion similarly.
Now I'll ask you a simple question with a yes or no answer. However, feel free to elaborate.
Q: Do you support abortion?
I look forward to see what dance you use to obfuscate this time.
quote:
One is legal and happens thousands of times a day. One is illegal. Let's not kid ourselves that people are drawing a line in the sand between the two however when in comes to the abortion/PP argument when the reality is end result is both the same.
Unlike you I will answer your question "head on"
quote:
he fact of the matter is there is a demand for intact fetal specimens for a reason so if you are outraged by something that may theoretically be happening you need to be outraged at both sides - supply side and demand side. That is literally the only point I have tried to make this whole thread. Why is all the outrage directed at PP and none at the biomedical research companies?
Q: Why is the outrage directed at PP and none at biomedical research companies?
A: A person was killed last year in a head on collision when a drunk driver crossed the divide. The victim's will donated his body for scientific uses. It ended up at LSU medical school where the medical students used the cadaver for anatomy classes.
I am outraged at the drunken driver for killing an innocent human being. I am equally outraged at PP for killing an innocent human being.
I am happy that some medical use came from tragedy. I am not outraged at LSU, the students, or the biomedical research companies.
I do not advocate drunk driving even though a supply of cadavers that are useful for advancing medicine results. I do not advocate abortion similarly.
Now I'll ask you a simple question with a yes or no answer. However, feel free to elaborate.
Q: Do you support abortion?
I look forward to see what dance you use to obfuscate this time.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:55 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
I do not advocate drunk driving even though a supply of cadavers that are useful for advancing medicine results. I do not advocate abortion similarly.
The whole outrage in the videos was over the controversy of price negotiation for the tissue and the possibility for buyers of the tissue to dictate the state of wholeness that the specimen was delivered in. That is nothing like a cadaver from an accident. There is a profit incentive to use that fetal tissue to find cures for the biomedical companies - they want that tissue and they want it more intact. No problem with that?
quote:
Q: Do you support abortion?
Do you mean do I donate monetarily to organizations that perform them or volunteer my time to support them? Nope
Would I choose to have an abortion if it was possible to get pregnant as a male? Nope
Would I encourage someone that carried my child to get one? Nope
Do I think it's still going to happen regardless of the legality? Yes - either out of the country if you can afford it or in a back alley if you can't.
Do I think since it's going to happen anyway that it should happen safely with the added possibility of positives from medical breakthroughs from the fetus? Yes
Do I think money to PP has a huge ROI in the form of future tax burden reduction? Yes
Does that make me a bad person? who gives a shite what you think
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:59 pm to Cromulent
quote:
Breitbart? Next post will be a link to National Enquirer. You're insufferable.
FYI I 100% believe Breitbart is biased.
That said, Things that Breitbart is more credible than...
WAPO
NYT
Huff Post
CNN
MSNBC
NPR
Mother Jones
Moveon.org
Politifact
Snopes
Slate
and the list goes on and on...
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 4:01 pm to gamatt53
You do understand the word elective, correct?
Save the feigned outrage.
Save the feigned outrage.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 4:12 pm to gamatt53
quote:
Fetal tissue was also a vital component in the development of vaccines for polio, chicken pox, rubella, and shingles. The polio vaccine alone saves 550,000 lives a year. Alta Charo, a bioethicist at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, says fetal tissue research has benefited "virtually every person in this country."
These and other widely used vaccines were derived from cell lines from fetal of exactly "2" fetuses in the 1960s of which only one was an abortion, there is no ongoing need or demand for fetal tissue to produce vaccines, that is pure propaganda.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 4:20 pm to EA6B
quote:
there is no ongoing need or demand for fetal tissue to produce vaccines, that is pure propaganda.
The article I linked didn't claim any differently - notice the word "WAS" right in what you quoted. There is an ongoing need for other treatments and research however (HIV, Parkinsons, Spinal/Brain, Alzheimer Etc) which is all in the article and not propaganda.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 4:38 pm to gamatt53
quote:
If you get diagnosed with Parkinson's down the road would you refuse treatment if the cure came from aborted fetal tissue cells?
Yes.
Would you be OK with killing a preemie from the NICU to benefit yourself?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 4:47 pm to gamatt53
gamatt53 bravo! 
Head on no flinching answer! You the man!
Exactly! Who the frick cares what gou202 thinks! Nobody died and made me king, nor did Jesus make me his rock. I'm just some faceless arsehole hiding behind a stage name.
But look how much I just learned about the man behind gamatt53: he opposes abortion but thinks others will do the immoral act. He advocates that the abortion should be performed as safely as possible for the adult. He further wants some good to come of it. That good is medical advances and tax savings (I'm assuming from reduced welfare payments to living children).
Now I'm not a shrink or priest, and I don't play one on TV, but I pick up on emotions and defensiveness on the medical uses and tax savings that result from legal abortions.
Does gou202 think you are a bad person? No. But who gives a shite what I think! What's worse than a baby dying- both mother and baby dying. I see your logic. I just disagree with your conclusion over legality. But who gives a shite what I think! What's worse than a tragedy- not using it for good. I will only say I disagree on the taxes. But again, my opinion is inconsequential.
What matters is if you think this makes you a bad person. If no, good. If yes, find your soul and heal it.
Now what I think now, is that I look forward to arguing with and against you in the future.
Head on no flinching answer! You the man!
quote:
who gives a shite what you think
Exactly! Who the frick cares what gou202 thinks! Nobody died and made me king, nor did Jesus make me his rock. I'm just some faceless arsehole hiding behind a stage name.
But look how much I just learned about the man behind gamatt53: he opposes abortion but thinks others will do the immoral act. He advocates that the abortion should be performed as safely as possible for the adult. He further wants some good to come of it. That good is medical advances and tax savings (I'm assuming from reduced welfare payments to living children).
Now I'm not a shrink or priest, and I don't play one on TV, but I pick up on emotions and defensiveness on the medical uses and tax savings that result from legal abortions.
Does gou202 think you are a bad person? No. But who gives a shite what I think! What's worse than a baby dying- both mother and baby dying. I see your logic. I just disagree with your conclusion over legality. But who gives a shite what I think! What's worse than a tragedy- not using it for good. I will only say I disagree on the taxes. But again, my opinion is inconsequential.
What matters is if you think this makes you a bad person. If no, good. If yes, find your soul and heal it.
Now what I think now, is that I look forward to arguing with and against you in the future.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 4:58 pm
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