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re: Mormons weren't enslaved. They were hunted for extermination.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:29 pm to GRTiger
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:29 pm to GRTiger
quote:
Mormons are good people, but I've only known one that wasn't off a little. Like aggy different. Like you could just tell which one in the group was the Mormon.
No what I mean?
0
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:30 pm to ItTakesAThief
Blacks came west for opportunity too. Admittedly it wasn't voluntarily. But hey, every race and culture has to rise above the limitations, real and perceived.
Acadians fled religious persecution and made do with living in south LA paradise.
Acadians fled religious persecution and made do with living in south LA paradise.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:30 pm to thetigerman
quote:
quote:
I lived in Utah for a few years too. Same thing.
Good to see you made it out.
I really miss the 20 min drive to Brighton for snowboarding. Now I have a 3.5 her drive
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:30 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Not really.
Maybe small town LDS, but SLC and surrounding area (like 85% of the pop. of UT) are perfectly fine, non-complaining/persecuted individuals.
And I've had more than a few conversations with practicing LDS, former LDS and many in between.
Quite possibly. Perhaps having been raised there (Utah county), I just developed a different perspective. But the persecution complex is a pretty well-referenced thing among a great deal of them. Anecdotal, I know - sorry!
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:31 pm to SoulGlo
A whole line of my ancestors were slaughtered by the Huguenots.
Where's my check?
Where's my check?
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:31 pm to SoulGlo
I dunno man, I get the sentiment.
But choosing to use these people as an example is the wrong way. I mean you're talking about people that willingly followed a con artist, ambushed and slaughtered other pioneers while trying to blame injuns, started with polygamy which now leads into spinoff polygamist pedo rape cults, and feeds a not insignificant amount into the militia movements.
How about no one is crying on the Spanish or Italian coast for the ravages of the Levant nd north African corsairs in the 13-1600's when it was not uncommon for whole town and villages to disappear in a raid.
But choosing to use these people as an example is the wrong way. I mean you're talking about people that willingly followed a con artist, ambushed and slaughtered other pioneers while trying to blame injuns, started with polygamy which now leads into spinoff polygamist pedo rape cults, and feeds a not insignificant amount into the militia movements.
How about no one is crying on the Spanish or Italian coast for the ravages of the Levant nd north African corsairs in the 13-1600's when it was not uncommon for whole town and villages to disappear in a raid.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:32 pm to SoulGlo
American blacks alone have adopted the catastrophic External of Locus Control mass psychology approach. They teach and reaffirm generationally, that not only was their race victimized, but that that victimization is in perpetuity. Virtually every single black person who becomes successful has to overcome that "gift" from their peers.
I'm all for acknowledging the truth of history. But this idea that there is anything unique to any race or religion being victimized at some point is ludicrous. Jews remember the Holocaust. They don't use it as an excuse for why they commit thousands of murders each year. Cambodians saw one in four of their country exterminated virtually overnight. They don't use it as an excuse for why their kids succeed in America or not.
Mormons exemplify that approach. They just overcame. They didn't stand on a street corner and sing about possibly, maybe overcoming some day.
I'm all for acknowledging the truth of history. But this idea that there is anything unique to any race or religion being victimized at some point is ludicrous. Jews remember the Holocaust. They don't use it as an excuse for why they commit thousands of murders each year. Cambodians saw one in four of their country exterminated virtually overnight. They don't use it as an excuse for why their kids succeed in America or not.
Mormons exemplify that approach. They just overcame. They didn't stand on a street corner and sing about possibly, maybe overcoming some day.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:32 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
I really miss the 20 min drive to Brighton for snowboarding. Now I have a 3.5 her drive
I definitely feel you there. You and I don't live that far apart apparently. It's 5.5 hours from here to my brother's house in Lehi. Running a business now, I haven't been able to visit in a few years. I'm terrible.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:34 pm to thetigerman
quote:
Quite possibly. Perhaps having been raised there (Utah county), I just developed a different perspective. But the persecution complex is a pretty well-referenced thing among a great deal of them. Anecdotal, I know - sorry!
Yeah that's certainly a different world, maybe there's more of it out there then I think as my UC experience is limited.
But from what I've seen, and the conversations I've had with LDS folks, who are often pretty open about their religion even in a work environment, we're just people with different beliefs. I don't get much of a woe is me attitude. On the contrart, I see more of a "We are better than you and will be right in the end," more often than not.
Also anecdotal though.
This post was edited on 8/17/17 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:36 pm to LuckyTiger
quote:
A whole line of my ancestors were slaughtered by the Huguenots. Where's my check?
If you can prove that you are a descendant of a Huguenot you can get a scholarship to Duke. This is not a joke.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:36 pm to Freauxzen
They definitely embraced industry and built a fabulous civilization out of nothing but the arid high desert. A lot to respect about that.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:39 pm to SoulGlo
Mormons are one of the few groups that the Feds did actually persecute and force out west. But they handled it like champs.
Isn't the LDS Church the largest landowner in the country now?
Isn't the LDS Church the largest landowner in the country now?
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:40 pm to thetigerman
quote:
quote:
Not really.
Maybe small town LDS, but SLC and surrounding area (like 85% of the pop. of UT) are perfectly fine, non-complaining/persecuted individuals.
And I've had more than a few conversations with practicing LDS, former LDS and many in between.
Quite possibly. Perhaps having been raised there (Utah county), I just developed a different perspective. But the persecution complex is a pretty well-referenced thing among a great deal of them. Anecdotal, I know - sorry!
Some of them have a bit of a complex, but they don't use it to excuse behavior or sloth.
you remind me of a deeper point
The people who REALLY have the complex and make it a big part of their lives are the FLDS in Colorado City and Norther AZ.
They DO blame many of their problems on past oppression. Their leaders DO excuse behavior and bad situations as a result of prejudice. Their towns are shitty and it's an overall shitty situation.
The difference between Colorado City AZ and St George UT is leaders who exploit the past of their people for personal gain. Same goes for the rest of the "oppressed" in this country.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:45 pm to SoulGlo
Mormons have done some exterminating themselves.
Ah, religion. It would seem so incomplete without blood and body parts spread all about.
Ah, religion. It would seem so incomplete without blood and body parts spread all about.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:46 pm to SoulGlo
While I agree that most Mormons are honest, hard working people, let's not forget that their history isn't exactly clean, innocent or angelic. Let's remember the Mountain Meadows massacre, for one!
LINK
The Mountain Meadows massacre was a series of attacks on the Baker–Fancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah. The attacks began on September 7 and culminated on September 11, 1857, resulting in the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by members of the Utah Territorial Militia from the Iron County district, together with some Paiute Native Americans. The militia, officially called the Nauvoo Legion, was composed of southern Utah's Mormon settlers (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the LDS Church). Intending to leave no witnesses and thus prevent reprisals, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children—about 120 men, women, and children in total. Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.
The wagon train, mostly families from Arkansas, was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory, during a conflict later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the Baker–Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped at the meadow, nearby militia leaders, including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, joined forces to organize an attack on the wagon train.
LINK
The Mountain Meadows massacre was a series of attacks on the Baker–Fancher emigrant wagon train, at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah. The attacks began on September 7 and culminated on September 11, 1857, resulting in the mass slaughter of the emigrant party by members of the Utah Territorial Militia from the Iron County district, together with some Paiute Native Americans. The militia, officially called the Nauvoo Legion, was composed of southern Utah's Mormon settlers (members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the LDS Church). Intending to leave no witnesses and thus prevent reprisals, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children—about 120 men, women, and children in total. Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.
The wagon train, mostly families from Arkansas, was bound for California on a route that passed through the Utah Territory, during a conflict later known as the Utah War. After arriving in Salt Lake City, the Baker–Fancher party made their way south, eventually stopping to rest at Mountain Meadows. While the emigrants were camped at the meadow, nearby militia leaders, including Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, joined forces to organize an attack on the wagon train.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:49 pm to conservativewifeymom
Ok, so are blacks innocent then? No.
American Indians? No.
Both were brutal people who slaughtered and enslaved each other. Next?
American Indians? No.
Both were brutal people who slaughtered and enslaved each other. Next?
Posted on 8/17/17 at 12:51 pm to SoulGlo
I didn't claim otherwise. The atrocities committed by the Mormons were often in conjunction with Indian tribes. Just don't need to paint a picture of unicorns and rainbows about the Mormons, especially when it took them a long time to acknowledge said atrocities.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:00 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
I didn't claim otherwise. The atrocities committed by the Mormons were often in conjunction with Indian tribes. Just don't need to paint a picture of unicorns and rainbows about the Mormons, especially when it took them a long time to acknowledge said atrocities
Did I paint a picture of rainbows? No.
Do you understand the point of the OP, or did you fail 6th grade English?
Or, did you just have to make sure nonody mentions Mormons without talking about shitty things some of them did?
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:06 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
Ok, so are blacks innocent then? No.
American Indians? No.
Both were brutal people who slaughtered and enslaved each other. Next?
Well, that's why this entire issue today is just utter nonsense. There isn't a group of people on this planet who didn't commit some combination of war/combat, enslavement of a defeated people, straight up murder or slaughter, forced migration, etc.
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:19 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Well, that's why this entire issue today is just utter nonsense. There isn't a group of people on this planet who didn't commit some combination of war/combat, enslavement of a defeated people, straight up murder or slaughter, forced migration, etc.
Agreed.
Those who were shite on most recently only have themselves to blame for dwelling on victimhood. It's more confortable that way, and gives them an excuse to not even try.
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