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re: Live: President Trump Speaks at 75th Anniversary of the Battle at Coral Sea
Posted on 5/5/17 at 2:47 am to Mr.Perfect
Posted on 5/5/17 at 2:47 am to Mr.Perfect
Lee would have known what he was up against Day One..would he have done the same thing? No way to know, but perhaps not. He was of the opinion that it was the wrong battle but it had already been joined.
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Posted on 5/5/17 at 3:10 am to KCT
quote:
I have to be honest. I've never heard of it.
The Battle of the Coral Sea was the first of four great carrier battles in 1942 that decided the war in the Pacific.
Per all the naval treaties from the 1920's both the US and the Japanese had 6 large 'fleet' carriers carrying 60-100 planes each. At Coral Sea you had IJNS Shokaku and IJNS Zuikaku. Both had attacked Pearl Harbor 5 months previously. The Japanese had a baby carrier IJNS Shoho.
On the USN side we had carriers USS Lexington - converted from a battle cruiser and USS Yorktown.
All the action was provided by aircraft. The two fleets did not sight one another.
Shokaku was badly damaged and the Japs lost many of their pilots. Shoho was pounded to pieces.
Lexington took some heavy hits but was able to steam. But there were aviation fumes throughout the ship. She was rent by terrible explosions and down she went.
Lexington on fire
But the Japanese were forestalled in their attempt to capture Port Moresby in New Guinea.
It didn't occur to the Japanese - gee how did two US fleet carriers just happen to get in our way? They didn't wonder after Midway in June, either. That is when they lost the war in five minutes.
The US Navy was reading a lot of their messages through code breaking. They never tumbled to it.
This post was edited on 5/5/17 at 3:16 am
Posted on 5/5/17 at 3:27 am to antibarner
quote:
Just a hypothetical...had the radar operators that mistook the Japanese strike force at Pearl Harbor for a bunch of incoming B17's somehow sounded a warning would the war have turned out differently? Fifteen minutes warning....would it have changed history?I
The worst thing that could have happened at Pearl Harbor was for the battle line to sortie. Had all those BB's been sunk in open water, they would have been lost to us and the loss of life would have been much worse. As it was, 3 of the BB's sunk in the harbor were raised and refitted. Tennessee, Maryland and Pennsylvania were damaged but not sunk.
USS Nevada bombarding France during operation OVERLORD, 1944.
West Virginia On 12/7/41
Rebuilt and refitted.
This post was edited on 5/5/17 at 3:44 am
Posted on 5/5/17 at 3:33 am to asurob1
You got downvoted for knowing stuff. Poliboard at its best lol.
Posted on 5/5/17 at 3:39 am to antibarner
quote:
Mac Arthur having his planes dispersed at Clark Field and other Philippine Air Bases and many in the air..the food and ammo not sent to the beachheads...
McArthur had about 35 B-17's in the Philippines and dozens of fighter planes. The Japanese strike timed to hit Clark Field from Formosa (now Taiwan) at the same time at the Pearl Harbor attack was delayed by bad weather. Mac refused his air commander's request to strike first with the Baker Wun Sevens. As it was, the tardy Japanese strike still caught many US aircraft on the ground.
There was enough rice in warehouses to last the garrison two years. But there were no plans to move it or preserve it. It was abandoned to the Japanese or burned as the US forces retreated intro Bataan where they were starved out.
McArthur's performance was not very good in the Philippines.
Posted on 5/5/17 at 6:16 am to KCT
quote:
have to be honest. I've never heard of it.
Well at least you're honest.
Posted on 5/5/17 at 6:33 am to Mr.Perfect
quote:
What is JEB Stuart had been with Lee at the beginning of Gettysburg?
Lee's hubris would have mooted his presence. Having learned nothing from Malvern Hill the year before Lee would gone "hey diddle diddle right up the middle" at G-Burg as he did in this reality and wrecked his army for offensive operations. Lee is vastly overrated. He did no better outside Virginia than many Federal generals did within it.
"In the course of four hours (at Malvern Hill) , a series of blunders in planning and communication had caused Lee's forces to launch three failed frontal infantry assaults across hundreds of yards of open ground, unsupported by Confederate artillery, charging toward firmly entrenched Union infantry and artillery defenses. These errors provided Union forces with an opportunity to inflict heavy casualties. In the aftermath of the battle, however, the Confederate press heralded Lee as the savior of Richmond."
LINK
Posted on 5/5/17 at 6:59 am to WhiskeyPapa
Lee had given orders not to engage but Harry Heth couldn't tell the difference between Union Cavalry and militia and blundered on in anyway. Which even if it were militia he had orders not to do.
Had Stuart been out front and probing instead of Heth they would have known it was Buford and where they were infantry wouldn't be far behind. Also they could have easily pulled back and awaited further orders. Lee would have had a much better sense of where all the players were.
Had Stuart been out front and probing instead of Heth they would have known it was Buford and where they were infantry wouldn't be far behind. Also they could have easily pulled back and awaited further orders. Lee would have had a much better sense of where all the players were.
Posted on 5/5/17 at 7:03 am to WhiskeyPapa
No it wasn't. I seriously wonder if Wainwright and Sharpe would not have fought to the last man knowing what was ahead of them upon surrender.
This post was edited on 5/5/17 at 7:06 am
Posted on 5/5/17 at 7:15 am to antibarner
quote:
Lee had given orders not to engage but Harry Heth couldn't tell the difference between Union Cavalry and militia and blundered on in anyway. Which even if it were militia he had orders not to do.
Lee still would have attacked the Union center on the third day. Whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad.
Posted on 5/5/17 at 7:21 am to antibarner
quote:
No it wasn't. I seriously wonder if Wainwright and Sharpe would not have fought to the last man knowing what was ahead of them upon surrender.
That was a mess for sure. And the intel the US government had suggested the Japs would attack the Philippines. That was one reason for the lapse at Pearl Harbor - no one expected the Japs to try that!
So Mac wasn't ready. I just recently read that about the huge supply of rice. It should have been moved to Bataan.
We had General Austin Shofner at our Marine Corps ball in the late '80's. He was an all American at UT in 1937. He played for Coach Neyland. He was one of the first group of escapees from the Japanese.
Posted on 5/5/17 at 8:10 am to antibarner
quote:
No it wasn't. I seriously wonder if Wainwright and Sharpe would not have fought to the last man knowing what was ahead of them upon surrender.
If MacArthur hadn't been so taken up with his own grandiosity...and actually moved supplies into the Bataan Peninsula
there are a series of good reads over on alternate history covering some changes in the pacific war
#3 in the series - tales from a battle at dawn
#1 - The Battle at Dawn
#2 - Eisenhower in the Pacific - The Shoestring Warriors of Luzon
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