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re: Libs: why do corporate profits anger you?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:21 pm to boogiewoogie1978
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:21 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
Corporations not paying taxes anger me.
You do realize that you are paying the corporations taxes, right? Not the corporation.
The price of every product and service that you buy includes the taxes that the company has to pay. In reality, it would work out to be the same if the corporation paid zero taxes, and we raised your income taxes. The cost of goods would go down and your taxes would go up. It would actually be better from the perspective that the taxes we all pay would be more visible to us, rather than embedded in the cost of all the things we purchase.
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Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:21 pm to DelU249
quote:
not related to the tax situation you're talking about because are tax rates are astronomical, but there are situations when the fiduciary obligation just annoys the piss out of me because they just run from everything even though it is not in the interest of their shareholders
case in point, sony and the movie "the interview". so many times a call is based on perception and how you read the room and time and time again CEOs of these large corporations prove they don't have a fricking clue.
I mean, yea, these people make mistakes. They are short-sighted; they are greedy; they are unkind. It doesn't mean we can or should legislate that away.
quote:
also I do agree with the libs that they come to look at employees as names on a spreadsheet rather than people.
personally I think the corporate environment for typical employees and management is fricking creepy. really creepy.
Some do. Some don't. Different business models require different needs and different mindsets and different cultures. What may work in consulting does not work in construction, and what may work in FinTech does not work in retail. Again, that doesn't mean we should legislate that shite.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:23 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Your understanding of economics and markets is shite.
Seriously - you're advocating for a Chavez-style mindset. Do you not realize that?
Are you saying that Thomas Jefferson had a shitty mindset?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:25 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
quote:
Your understanding of economics and markets is shite.
Seriously - you're advocating for a Chavez-style mindset. Do you not realize that?
Are you saying that Thomas Jefferson had a shitty mindset?
Well, Jefferson was highly over-rated as a president, and his economic policies were disastrous. The Embargo Act was fricking stupid, and we'd still be an agrarian third world shite hole if he'd has his druthers.
A brilliant man, but his understanding of economics was shite. You do know that we had our first major depression under his watch and in large part because of his policies, right?
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:25 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Your understanding of economics and markets is shite.
Seriously - you're advocating for a Chavez-style mindset. Do you not realize that?
Are you saying that Thomas Jefferson had a shitty mindset?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:27 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
Are you saying that Thomas Jefferson had a shitty mindset?
See above
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:28 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Deregulation puts us in danger. History shows us that much.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:29 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
AbuTheMonkey
So I'm arguing with a man who thinks he knows more than Thomas Jefferson?
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:29 pm to InTheDetails
quote:
Deregulation puts us in danger. History shows us that much.
Are you saying all regulation is beneficial?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:32 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
quote:
AbuTheMonkey
So I'm arguing with a man who thinks he knows more than Thomas Jefferson?
You are dodging the issue. His own economic policies were disastrous. Do you not know that?
Considering we have 240 years of advancement and learning in that field since then, I'd gander a good many people have a better understanding of economics than anyone did in the eighteenth century.
Or you can keep dodging the issue and keep showing that you don't know what you're talking about.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:39 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
Are you saying that Thomas Jefferson had a shitty mindset?
No, but I don't think that quote means what you think it means.
If we set the corporate tax rate to zero, then the corporations won't be lobbying to get tax cuts. This will also take away the power of our legislators to request campaign donations in exchange for said tax cuts.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:41 pm to llfshoals
quote:
They have a responsibility to their stockholders, and to obey the laws of that country.
This is absolutely correct and why there IS a role for government here, which you admit by including "and obey the laws"
In a truly capitalist environment a big company like Tysons , for example, would simply buy a piece of land and dump all their waste on it, why beccause it is the cheapest way to deal with waste and that is their number one priority.
But we have as a society decided that we can't just let companies take actions based on what's best for them individually in every case.
The only real discussion is , how much government control there should be. The answer is probably more than many conservatives believe there should be but far far less than most liberals would like there to be.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:46 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Or you can keep dodging the issue and keep showing that you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not dodging anything. You are basing your argument on theory. In the real world corporations dodge taxes by various loopholes. Loopholes they've worked to get into government over time. They may have a responsibility to their shareholders but ultimately someone has to foot the bill for the infrastructure. This usually falls upon average people not corporations.
I'm not advocating that all corporations are bad but they have rigged the rules to their advantage.
Now the question posed by the OP is why do corporate profits anger you? They don't. I'm just tired of footing the bill for people who are better off than I am simply because they don't want to.
The fact that you think you know more about Thomas Jefferson shows how far we have fallen. Keep letting those corporations steal from you but I refuse to give into their line of BS.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:46 pm to Eli Goldfinger
quote:mostly because of the amount of tax dollars we lose via tax loopholes
Why are y'all so mad at corporations?
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:47 pm to Eli Goldfinger
I absolutely love the profits generated by the corporate stocks in my IRA and getting a fat quarterly dividend check is like money falling out of the sky.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:48 pm to Machine
quote:
mostly because of the amount of tax dollars we lose via tax loopholes
It's not yours, you aren't losing anything
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:48 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
boogiewoogie1978
Stop calling them loopholes, they are not. They are deductions.
A loophole is something that was unintended but allows a taxpayer to exploit it to pay less taxes.
Deductions are not unintended, nor is using them exploitation. If you don't like the deductions, that is fine, but they are not loopholes.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:49 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
This is absolutely correct and why there IS a role for government here, which you admit by including "and obey the laws"
In a truly capitalist environment a big company like Tysons , for example, would simply buy a piece of land and dump all their waste on it, why beccause it is the cheapest way to deal with waste and that is their number one priority.
But we have as a society decided that we can't just let companies take actions based on what's best for them individually in every case.
The only real discussion is , how much government control there should be. The answer is probably more than many conservatives believe there should be but far far less than most liberals would like there to be.
Pricing in externalities is difficult to do well, and that's usually where the gray area is and the push/pull between mainstream liberals and conservatives.
What the U.S. needs in its tax and regulatory codes above all else is simplicity. That's been one of the hidden secrets of Scandinavian countries, for instance (they also have lower corporate rates, as an aside): it is incredibly easy to do business there.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:51 pm to AbuTheMonkey
i'm not opposed to legislating it unless you think not allowing at&t and time warner to merge is legislating it. i get diversifying, but shite gets out of hand.
Disney, time warner, nbcuniversal and newscorp...that's 95% of television (network and cable)
and they have similar influence with radio and publishing.
that's bullshite.
Disney, time warner, nbcuniversal and newscorp...that's 95% of television (network and cable)
and they have similar influence with radio and publishing.
that's bullshite.
Posted on 5/3/17 at 12:55 pm to boogiewoogie1978
quote:
The fact that you think you know more about Thomas Jefferson shows how far we have fallen. Keep letting those corporations steal from you but I refuse to give into their line of BS.
Again, you are putting a guy on a pedestal who's own understanding of real world economics was absolute crap and was proved repeatedly in real time during his time in office. Do you not realize that? Talk about theory vs. real world.
I am not a fan of loopholes - really, deductions - but they just as often come from your angle (i.e., write off on domestic manufacturing was pushed by whom? check that one out) as they do from the corporations.
They don't steal shite from me. They provide a lot of value, and American firms are the foundation upon which we've built the richest and most powerful country the world has ever seen and the greatest time to ever have lived. Sorry you're a miser.
This post was edited on 5/3/17 at 1:02 pm
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