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Message
re: Liberalism 101; Why Gruber was "right" to Lie about Obamacare
Posted on 11/15/14 at 12:35 pm to mmcgrath
Posted on 11/15/14 at 12:35 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Gruber was talking about voter ignorance.
This is what I am talking about when I say you are spinning. He was not trying to EDUCATE them because they were "ignorant" he was LYING to them INTENTIONALLY.
0
Posted on 11/15/14 at 12:38 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
Lsupimp
As always, great prose AND content.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 12:39 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:If I say the voters aren't terribly informed economically so they deserve specifics and clarity so that they may know the implications if a piece legislation to them and YOU say, they are uninformed economically so I'm going to lie to them in order to get what I want, YOU are the piece of shite.
Hey how come only right wingers are allowed to question the intelligence of the American voter?
This post was edited on 11/15/14 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 11/15/14 at 12:39 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
If they Republicans took a better approach to opposing it
You can't help yourself can you? You really can't. Spread that blame around. Throw that net as wide as you can. If it's everybody's fault, it's nobody's fault, amiright?
Posted on 11/15/14 at 12:42 pm to Lsupimp
quote:The republicans took the approach if saying what the bill REALLY meant. Are u really arguing that the liars are to be commended for getting away with it?
If they Republicans took a better approach to opposing it
Posted on 11/15/14 at 12:50 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
I am pretty independent in my ways
You can't make this shite up. I bet you actually believe this.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 1:16 pm to mmcgrath
No
Romney and Gruber were both right.
47% would be hopelessly trapped in the big lie.
Romney and Gruber were both right.
47% would be hopelessly trapped in the big lie.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 1:27 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
47% would be hopelessly trapped in the big lie.
You can see it in some of the unfiltered reaction:
"We're the good guys. We're supposed to be above this. This is Cheney/Rove/Bush crap."
Except of course the liberties and spin by Cheney/Rove/Bush were grounded in some core facts, had bipartisan domestic support, as well as international corroboration for the key justification for the invasion of Iraq.
This however, is blatant - we must fool the people, the people's representatives and get the "independent" press on board - otherwise, if we tell the the truth, this bill will not pass - lying. And they can't believe their side is responsible for it - despite the fact they (progressives of all political stripes - i.e. Nixon) do it all the time.
You can go all the way back to the income tax - "No - we don't need to cap the rate at 10% - nobody will EVER consider making it that high" - Social Security, EPA, War on Poverty (Have poverty rates gone down since that started), Department of "Education" (Has education improved since it's creation?), Dept of Energy, etc., etc., etc.
This post was edited on 11/15/14 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 11/15/14 at 1:28 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
In their defense, the average American voter has no fricking clue what is genuinely in their best interest. People vote based on frivolous issues and blind ideology, not on what is actually best for their future and the future of the country.
Which is why the Founding Fathers initially limited who could vote to the people who actually knew what they were doing when they put a check mark by a certain name.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 1:31 pm to Ace Midnight
Yeah, but they ALL do it. Plus children are starving in Japan and hey the economy is going gang-busters so....
That's going to be the strategy. Ignore. Point fingers back at the accusers. Isolate somebody and target him. Spread the blame net out as wide as possible. Pretend all parties are equally guilty. Reset to ignore.
That's going to be the strategy. Ignore. Point fingers back at the accusers. Isolate somebody and target him. Spread the blame net out as wide as possible. Pretend all parties are equally guilty. Reset to ignore.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 1:32 pm to wickowick
quote:
Was there any way for the American public to know what was in the bull before it was passed?
Every conservative and libertarian pundit in the country was shouting at the top of their lungs what this bill was for an entire year.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 1:36 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Every conservative and libertarian pundit in the country was shouting at the top of their lungs what this bill was for an entire year.
We were yelling about the general concept of the bill, not the specific individual parts, those were not shared, was the 2000 page bill even available for a day before it was passed?
Posted on 11/15/14 at 1:40 pm to wickowick
quote:
We were yelling about the general concept of the bill, not the specific individual parts, those were not shared, was the 2000 page bill even available for a day before it was passed?
You don't need to read the specific passages to realize that this is a bad bill.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 2:18 pm to RollTide1987
The right could argue the general concept of the bill, they couldn't argue specifics. Gruber was arguing specifics for left and this was used to pass the bill. One of the biggest problems with this is Gruber was lying...
Posted on 11/15/14 at 2:27 pm to wickowick
quote:
The right could argue the general concept of the bill, they couldn't argue specifics.
One of the things they argued against, specifically, is that the budget numbers were being fudged or lied about.
quote:
Gruber was lying...
Another thing is that they argued was that people would not be able to keep their plans and doctors.
quote:
Gruber was lying...
Yet another thing is they argued it was a wealth restribution scheme.
quote:
Gruber was lying...
Posted on 11/15/14 at 2:30 pm to wickowick
quote:
The right could argue the general concept of the bill
And the general concept of the bill was more than enough for people to see what a terrible bill it was. The fact that they couldn't proves Gruber's point. The American voter, particularly the leftist voter, is an idiot.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 3:09 pm to ShortyRob
quote:I was asked if there was a way for the voters to know about the details before it was passed. This would assume that the Dem's are trying to conceal things. Obviously we are talking about things the Republicans could do at that point.
The republicans took the approach if saying what the bill REALLY meant. Are u really arguing that the liars are to be commended for getting away with it?
This post was edited on 11/15/14 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 11/15/14 at 3:37 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
Obviously we are talking about things the Republicans could do at that point.
Here's Paul Ryan - PLEADING with Obama to consider the fiscal ramifications and specifically pointing out the specific problems with the CBO scoring -
LINK
fell on deaf (and big ears) and Dear Leader, rather than addressing it (must be assumed he knew about the fudging and couldn't/wouldn't step back from the lies) - just called them crazy -
LINK
And people did vote against - Congress will likely repeal it and he will veto the repeal.
The rhetoric and theatrical techniques in that video, with its appropriation of children, and just ludicrous pandering: "We still have women. We still have children." is stunning in hindsight.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 3:42 pm to Lsupimp
They all KNOW that Odumbf*ck's entire political life is one big lie. They just don't give a sh!t because he promotes their socialist agenda. Most Democrats couldn't be elected as county dog catchers if they were truthful with their real goals and politics.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 4:55 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
If I say the voters aren't terribly informed economically so they deserve specifics and clarity so that they may know the implications if a piece legislation to them and YOU say, they are uninformed economically so I'm going to lie to them in order to get what I want, YOU are the piece of shite.
So its OK to call them stupid, so long as you're advancing a Republican agenda?
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