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re: Israeli Arab Citizenship has been offered for nearly 40 years ... WTF???

Posted on 8/2/14 at 3:18 pm to
Posted by BarberitosDawg
Lee County Florida across causeway
Member since Oct 2013
9914 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 3:18 pm to
Your position:

The whole premise of your diatribe covering multiple threads is constructed from that old tired document. I thought you might recognize it as the typical narcissist does himself in the mirror at some point during the day, no reason to lose your marbles blather on about it so....

quote:

in the year 2000 would have anything favorable to say about the blockade of Gaza and the walling off of 75% of the West Bank that has gone on since then. So it's a little disingenuous to cite them for only the parts that agree with your propositions. Especially since the proposal you're lifting from envisions an unlimited right of return which no Israeli government will ever be on board with, ever. EVER. (And you call me Pollyanna?)


Is this a rhetorical or theoretical misnomer? Never mind it's telling and not so much flattering I fear from your end.

I forgive you for the unhinged commentary as it's not easy for a man to see himself portrayed as dishonest and frivolous.

Good luck with your soul searching it's going to take all night.


Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

The whole premise of your diatribe covering multiple threads is constructed from that old tired document.
I'd never seen that document before in my life until I started wondering why perfectly lucid paragraphs using $10 words were suddenly being chunked in between your cheap racialism and googled a phrase. Maybe you should try quoting my actual ideas instead of some Oslo-era manifesto you imagine to be representative of them because... it is vaguely dovish? I honestly have no idea.
This post was edited on 8/2/14 at 3:38 pm
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
66454 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 4:10 pm to
quote:

The falsity of this argument can be easily proven by taking it to a logical extreme. Suppose Israel were to demand, as a precondition for negotiations, that the PLO not only accept their existence as a Jewish state, but total demilitarization, Israeli control over borders, and and final borders at the current settlement walls, with zero pullouts. The current map would be the final status map. No land swaps, and Palestine would exist as a state only in the discontinuous beige areas.


right because the civil rights movement didn't get anywhere without rockets, or ghandi.

Thats dumb. They should have demilitarized years ago. They would have all the worlds sympathy, and leave Israel with no excuses.

Better yet I will say that if they demilitarized Israel would give them their land, and lift the blockade.

Thats as realistic as thinking Hamas will be satisfied with a two nation solution.
Posted by Ghazi
Dallas Mavs 2011 NBA Champions
Member since Dec 2007
16121 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 4:34 pm to
Cliffnotes: israel is an apartheid state. Have heard many stories of how Arabs are essenially 2nd class citizens in israel, due to the racist Zionism doctrine thar israel was founded on.
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 5:32 pm to
quote:

right because the civil rights movement didn't get anywhere without rockets, or ghandi.

Thats dumb. They should have demilitarized years ago. They would have all the worlds sympathy, and leave Israel with no excuses.

Better yet I will say that if they demilitarized Israel would give them their land, and lift the blockade.
Demilitarization, in the context of negotiations, refers to the final status of Palestine, not its current state. Fatah doesn't have an army. The al-Aqsa brigades have been a non-entity in the West Bank since 2007. There have been no major uprisings there since the end of the Second Intifada. The West Bank is demilitarized.

Since that time, the settlements have expanded, the walls have gone up, the price tag attacks have proceeded with impunity. They have gotten no concessions, instead their negotiating partners have gotten harder (Barak to Sharon to Olmert to Netanyahu) and preconditions have gotten taller.

You may think the population of Gaza and the Hamas politicians remain hardline and militant purely because of Islamic radicalism and spite. That probably plays some role. But a lot of it is also because they watched the PLO and Fatah go down the same transition from terrorists in the 1970s (back then, remember, they were skyjacking and bombing left and right) to moderate negotiators in the 2000s, embodied by Abbas, and have gotten basically nothing for it. Instead Israel just keeps upping the asking price each round of negotiations while carving out more land. The window of what is "acceptable" gets rolled farther and farther down. Put yourself in the shoes of a West Bank negotiator for the last 25 years.

"Okay, you've accepted the two-state solution (PLO Declaration, 1988), now accept some settlements will stay. Okay, you've accepted some settlements will stay (Oslo, 2000), now renounce violence. Okay, you've renounced violence (Sharm el-Shiekh, 2005), now give up on the right of return. Okay, you've given up the right of return (Annapolis, 2008), now accept some Israeli early warning stations in the Jordan Valley. Oh, you're fine with those after all? (This was the issue Kerry focused on in 2014) Now recognize us as a Jewish state!"

These are all things that the PLO had previously refused to concede, that it has conceded to Israel during or before negotiations, and have been taken as given during subsequent rounds of negotiations. Meanwhile, what has Israel given them in return? They've gotten one transitional deal from them, Oslo, which Netanyahu basically lit on fire after his first term (he says this, outright, in his famous "America is easily moved" video) and an army of settlement expansion.
quote:

Thats as realistic as thinking Hamas will be satisfied with a two nation solution.
Like that time they said they would be in 2006? Or in 2011? Or in 2013?

Let me ask you this, what makes you think Likud wants a two-state solution? I don't mean their words, I mean their actions.
This post was edited on 8/2/14 at 5:35 pm
Posted by S.E.C. Crazy
Alabama
Member since Feb 2013
7905 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 5:37 pm to
Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan are all backing Israel on wipping out the Qatar/Muslim Brotherhood backed Hamas, bcause they understand that the Muslim Brotherhood/ISIS coalition is dangerous to the whole region, and to the overthrow of their governments.

PER CNN, Why Obama didn't understand that the M.B. was a terrorist organization is beyond me, he invited them to the W.H.

Hamas and the M.B. are closely affiliated.
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 5:45 pm to
Here is what ISIS thinks of Palestine: LINK

And here is what Palestine thinks of ISIS: LINK
Posted by Malik Agar
Member since Nov 2012
12076 posts
Posted on 8/2/14 at 6:38 pm to
I saw that Palestinian parody a few days go; it's actually pretty funny.
Posted by the808bass
The Lou
Member since Oct 2012
111510 posts
Posted on 8/3/14 at 2:00 am to
quote:

Cliffnotes: israel is an apartheid state. Have heard many stories of how Arabs are essenially 2nd class citizens in israel, due to the racist Zionism doctrine thar israel was founded on.


If anyone knows how to treat a second-class citizen, it's a Muslim.
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
35389 posts
Posted on 8/3/14 at 8:40 am to
quote:

Unless Israel wants to cross the historical Rubicon and engage in an actual genocide or a mass ethnic cleansing (which they aren't, their moral compasses are not yet that warped
I think it is dangerous to assume that any population on Earth is above this. The idea that one race has a better moral compass than others is the beginning of a slippery slope that leads to it.
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