re: Israel vows to stop Hamas..."once and for all".

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Funny you should say this as your own book talks of the tribulations that Israel will suffer through

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It does and Israel had been through much tribulation and will face more. But ultimately, they will be restored and their enemies destroyed.

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I don't know. Which prophecy are you referring to?

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There are too many to list. Try reading the books of Ezekiel, Daniel, Zechariah and Revelation for starters.

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why are Americans so keen on getting involved in this?

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Unrest in the Middle East is bad for our economy

Z oil!

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The consequences being what? Their descendants doomed to live forever as second-class non-voting non-citizens? This sort of airy hand-wavy "wars have consequences" schtick ignores the inconvenient historical fact that for most of history, unless a country was conquering a territory that was already demographically aligned with them (such as Russia and Crimea), such conquering was usually followed by massive ethnic cleansing to avoid just the sort of situation Israel is faced with now. Israel wanted the territory, but hasn't wanted to follow through with the brutal logic, for obvious reasons.

Now it's going on 50 years. The veterans of the Six-Day War have grown-arse grandchildren. And Israel still hasn't figured out what to do with all these goddamn Arabs they conquered. You can only keep them waiting so long. "Grandpa lost a war, and that's why you have to live under an Israeli police state your whole life" doesn't wash. Self-determination is one of those things people will fight and die for regardless.

Israel has to make a choice. Democracy, Jewishness, Land. Pick two.

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Well said! Of course folks like Apex probably believed that it would have been morally acceptable to maintain Jim Crow and Apartheid for eternity. By the way, former Israeli Speaker of the Knesset Avraham Burg expressed these same sentiments. Here's how he put it:

"Between the Jordan and the Mediterranean there is no longer a clear Jewish majority. And so, fellow citizens, it is not possible to keep the whole thing without paying a price. We cannot keep a Palestinian majority under an Israeli boot and at the same time think ourselves the only democracy in the Middle East. There cannot be democracy without equal rights for all who live here, Arab as well as Jew. We cannot keep the territories and preserve a Jewish majority in the world's only Jewish state - not by means that are humane and moral and Jewish.

Do you want the greater land of Israel? No problem. Abandon democracy. Let's institute an efficient system of racial separation here, with prison camps and detention villages.

Do you want a Jewish majority? No problem. Either put the Arabs on railway cars, buses, camels and donkeys and expel them en masse - or separate ourselves from them absolutely, without tricks and gimmicks. There is no middle path. We must remove all the settlements - all of them - and draw an internationally recognised border between the Jewish national home and the Palestinian national home. The Jewish law of return will apply only within our national home, and their right of return will apply only within the borders of the Palestinian state.

Do you want democracy? No problem. Either abandon the greater land of Israel, to the last settlement and outpost, or give full citizenship and voting rights to everyone, including Arabs. The result, of course, will be that those who did not want a Palestinian state alongside us will have one in our midst, via the ballot box."

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There are too many to list. Try reading the books of Ezekiel, Daniel, Zechariah and Revelation for starters.

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I've read them but could probably use a refresher. Ezekiel can get downright weird. I like Revelation because it's newer. And it's interesting but however I interpret it, it isn't going to make any difference so I'm gonna go strictly on faith that the One In Control knows what's happening and that I'm in good shape on my end.

If I go on what I interpret, not only would it be a self-fulfilling prophecy but I will more than likely be wrong and screw it up. So I don't try to figure out what's going to happen tomorrow or the next day because if I do, I will forget what the hell I'm supposed to be doing today. And when I catch myself thinking I know, REALLY know, I know it's not coming from me because it only happens when I'm listening. But without a doubt, something does get my attention from time to time...but I'm not going to tell everyone I know something they don't because they'll think I'm full of bull and they'd more than likely be right. So I try to keep it between me an the One who does know.

Does my rambling make any sense?

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If I go on what I interpret, not only would it be a self-fulfilling prophecy but I will more than likely be wrong and screw it up. So I don't try to figure out what's going to happen tomorrow or the next day because if I do, I will forget what the hell I'm supposed to be doing today.

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I don't try to predict everything that will happen and some of the names of countries have changed through the years making it harder to follow for a novice. I know according to the bible, they are a major player in the end times and will be restored.


Ezek 39:27-29 "When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations." 28 "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind." 29 "I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Here's a video of IDF killing 5 Hamas commandos who stormed the beach near a base. Buncha dumbasses, bringing rifles to a helicopter fight. LINK

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I guess different people have different interpretations. One thing I do know is this: Pastor John Hagee gets on my nerves. And I do not get a good feeling about the guy.

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I'm not a fan of Hagee etither. He is one of those that think that the modern day church is the present Israel and all of the promises God made to Israel are now referring to the Christian church instead.

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The same way people like Mel Gibson's dad believes that 6 million Jews just got up and came to the U.S. during WWII.

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Even that is more likely than believing that one of the worlds largest empires just up an left the best stretch of real estate between India and Spain.


I really don't want to get back into this holocaust thing again though. It is such a tired subject for me and there will never be an honest discussion sans ad hominem to be had.

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I think those books have almost nothing to do with the United States' neurotic obsession with Israel. It wasn't until the 60's when the Israel as gods holy land mantra started gaining steam among the religious right, and I would wager a huge portion of America's Israel First crowd do not have heavy religious affiliation.

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It's mostly due to politics and propaganda IMO. And don't get me wrong...I hope Israel thrives. But I'm not an Israeli and don't think their political situation is worth wasting American lives and dollars over.