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Message
1
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:06 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Since God and the Bible doesn't change
Tell that to christians from 100 years ago. and then 100 before that. and look at the book itself and how the words have changed lots and lots of times. not to be argumentative.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:07 am to m2pro
I think I was challenging your evolution claim more than anything. I think the founders were more moral than we are today, but I also agree with your point that it took us a while to catch up with their vision (black rights, women's rights, etc...). We evolved into the vision they had 150 years before we realized it. On a morality basis, this wasn't evolution as much as it was a paradigm shift by a later generation to realize what a previous generation already understood.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:07 am to m2pro
quote:Are you talking about translations or the texts that they were translated from? No new revelation is occurring that is being added to the Bible.
Tell that to christians from 100 years ago. and then 100 before that. and look at the book itself and how the words have changed lots and lots of times. not to be argumentative.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:10 am to m2pro
quote:
Tell that to christians from 100 years ago. and then 100 before that. and look at the book itself and how the words have changed lots and lots of times. not to be argumentative.
And this is what I thought you were getting at. The Christians founders were more moral than we are today. The Bible has not changed (read up on the Dead Sea Scrolls).
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:10 am to T1
quote:
. I think the founders were more moral than we are today
I think you would be wrong.
The vast majority of people in our past would be morally repugnant by today's standards.
That is why it is silly to judge people of the past based off today's standards. It's not fair because back then, society accepted a different morality than today.
In 100 years, we will all be viewed as moral barbarians most likely.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:13 am to T1
quote:
I think I was challenging your evolution claim more than anything
I don't mean it as a challenge to religion or a God. If God exists, then he created us however he did it... I view that process itself from inception to current stage of development as evolution. I have no problem with anyone that believes God in whatever way... hypocritically, I do have problems with islam.. but my logic is pretty sound on that objection.
quote:
On a morality basis, this wasn't evolution as much as it was a paradigm shift by a later generation to realize what a previous generation already understood
:)
Perhaps the forefathers knew it wouldn't take back then. perhaps they were pretty damn moral. I would certainly guess they were far more principled and moral than the current deep state garbage we have going on now.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:19 am to Salmon
quote:
The vast majority of people in our past would be morally repugnant by today's standards.
Have you ever seen the movie "Idiocracy?" Check it out... our founders are rolling over in their graves at what has become of this people.
quote:
That is why it is silly to judge people of the past based off today's standards. It's not fair because back then, society accepted a different morality than today.
Yeah, a much stricter morality. They took religion seriously and actually had the audacity to say our freedoms come from the Creator. Today, people mock that and say, "No, our freedoms come from Hillary and Bernie and the church of Big Brother!"
quote:
In 100 years, we will all be viewed as moral barbarians most likely.
No telling, interesting thought though.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:22 am to Salmon
quote:
Killing while defending yourself is objective, morally.
For me there is a big difference between killing and murder. One of my favorite old movies is "Sergeant York" with Gary Cooper. He struggled, as most Christians so, with the difference.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:23 am to T1
quote:
Have you ever seen the movie "Idiocracy?" Check it out... our founders are rolling over in their graves at what has become of this people.
Agreed, but then they'd probably be MOST interested in how the people themselves don't seem to give a RIP about politics or government. They're utterly apathetic to the point that socialism has been allowed front and center (Bernie).
quote:
Yeah, a much stricter morality. They took religion seriously and actually had the audacity to say our freedoms come from the Creator. Today, people mock that and say, "No, our freedoms come from Hillary and Bernie and the church of Big Brother!"
I'm not a religious guy. And I laugh at this point... because it's sort of true. They only care what furthers the left agenda, damn whatever principles. They've been utterly sold by the press at how bad anyone that disagrees is.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:25 am to T1
quote:
Yeah, a much stricter morality.
Not more strict. Just different. Their basis for their morality was founded on religion. Today's morality has drifted from that.
But I'd say people are just as strict to today's standards as they were to theirs
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:26 am to ngadawg250
quote:
For me there is a big difference between killing and murder.
The difference is...subjective. That is kinda the point.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:27 am to Salmon
quote:
But I'd say people are just as strict to today's standards as they were to theirs
Is "strict to subjectivism" an oxymoron?
"We strictly believe that there is no truth!"
This post was edited on 8/29/17 at 11:29 am
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:29 am to DeltaDoc
Morality is personal while mores are social. Morality is fluid and is directly related to how open a person is to education about a subject. Mores are directly related to how educated the members of a society are.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:29 am to T1
quote:
Is "strict to subjectivism" an oxymoron?
No. The code can move but you can still be strict to the code.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:33 am to Salmon
quote:
The code can move but you can still be strict to the code.
How? If you are right today, you are wrong tomorrow. You change to conform to whatever the conforming influence is. You stand for nothing.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:35 am to T1
quote:
And this is what I thought you were getting at. The Christians founders were more moral than we are today. The Bible has not changed (read up on the Dead Sea Scrolls).
I'm well aware of the dead sea scrolls.
I don't argue that the founders weren't more moral, and certainly don't argue they weren't moral for their time period. I have even bashed the current status of our government and how corrupt and immoral they are.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:35 am to T1
quote:
How? If you are right today, you are wrong tomorrow. You change to conform to whatever the conforming influence is. You stand for nothing.
You are thinking too small. I'm not talking individual to individual. I'm talking on a societal level. Shifts from generation to the next.
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:37 am to T1
quote:I have seen it, and I enjoy it. It's premise is intuitive, and sometimes it seems prescient.
Have you ever seen the movie "Idiocracy?" Check it out.
That being said, the actual scientific evidence has shown that each successive generation is more intelligent than an the previous ( Flynn Effect).
quote:Maybe, but I'm sure they would like some things and dislike others.
our founders are rolling over in their graves at what has become of this people.
quote:But I don't think "creator" is necessarily a theological concept so much as an idea that it is a pervasive and inherent right that no man can take away. But just to more that's only referenced in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.
Yeah, a much stricter morality. They took religion seriously and actually had the audacity to say our freedoms come from the Creator.
quote:I don't think many believe this.
Today, people mock that and say, "No, our freedoms come from Hillary and Bernie and the church of Big Brother!"
Posted on 8/29/17 at 11:37 am to DeltaDoc
quote:
Is it possible for what is moral to be fluid or is it static...meaning it does not change or is based on immovable concepts?
Depends on the basis for the morality in question.
If it's based on religion, then it's fluid and changes with each change in interpretation of the religion's doctrine, texts, etc.
If it's based on rational principles of right and wrong, then it should be static for the most part.
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