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re: I will never understand why Ayn Rand is so admired by my fellow conservatives
Posted on 9/28/14 at 4:51 pm to Tigah in the ATL
Posted on 9/28/14 at 4:51 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:Aka, 25 year old white college students.
Rand appeals to people who think they are better than the rest of the population.
1
Posted on 9/28/14 at 4:57 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Mostly people who are well off and believe in the just world theory.
Posted on 9/28/14 at 5:03 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
Rand appeals to people who think they are better than the rest of the population.
You don't need to read Ayn Rand to think you are better than the rest of the population. All you have to do is hang out at the DMV for half an hour.
Posted on 9/28/14 at 5:14 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
Mostly people who are well off and believe in the just world theory.
Just world theory is not Ayn Rand. Exactly the opposite.
"The new theory of Justice (John Rawls) demands that men counteract the 'injustice' of nature by instituting the most obscenely unthinkable injustice upon men: deprive 'those favored by nature' (i.e., the talented, the intelligent, the creative) to the right to the rewards they produce; and grant to the incompetent, the stupid, the slothful, a right to the rewards they could not produce, could not imagine and would not know what to do with."
...Ayn Rand,
Posted on 9/28/14 at 5:50 pm to Alahunter
quote:
I don't personally know one single person that has ever quoted her or used her as an example when it comes to politics or conservative views.
Seriously?
1. No, Sen. Rand Paul wasn’t named after Ayn Rand, but the Kentucky Republican told supporters in 2009 that he “cut [his] teeth on Ayn Rand in high school” and has read all of her novels.
2. In a 1966 letter, Ronald Reagan wrote, “Am an admirer of Ayn Rand …”
3. Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson calls “Atlas Shrugged” his “foundational book,” and the Republican said in a 2010 debate the novel is “a warning of what could happen to America.”
4. Like his son Rand, Rep. Ron Paul went through an Ayn Rand phase. In 2007, he told Dartmouth students that “she had a lot of influence on me,” but he has also criticized her take on religion and Christianity as seeming “so cold.”
5. Each year, Justice Clarence Thomas hosts a screening of the 1949 film version of Rand’s novel, “The Fountainhead,” for his four new law clerks.
6. Gary Johnson, the former New Mexico governor and current Libertarian candidate for president, gave his fiancée a copy of “Atlas Shrugged” when they started dating, and told her, “If you want to understand me, read this.”
7. Former South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford penned an essay for Newsweek, “Atlas Hugged,” just months after his affair was exposed in 2009. He said he was “blown away” by Rand’s novels in the ’80s, but “since then, I’ve grown more critical of Rand’s outlook because it doesn’t include the human needs we have for grace, love, faith, or any form of social compact.”
Now you know 7
This post was edited on 9/28/14 at 5:55 pm
Posted on 9/28/14 at 6:38 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
yet an important tenet of conservatism is the admiration of voluntary charity, community, and association
or
quote:
conservatism is nothing if not materialist
conservatism in the United States and Internationally is as varied as the cultures and philosophers who have embraced that label.
Rand came out of a culture (continental jewish cosmopolitan-similar to that other famous philosopher) which found itself in a moment of crisis in the mid to late 19th Century. What was one to do if you were Jewish living in Europe where liberalism led to the destruction of traditional Christian regimes and the rise of nationalist socialist movements and internationalist socialist movements. The most obvious choices were zionism and marxism. The less obvious choice was to head West. In Rand's case coming to America led her to create a philosophy that assumed that America was founded on purely enlightened principles that ignored its religious foundations and had a logic based in continental philosophy. Since America lacked such a systemic philosophy, she thought she would give us one. Rand is not the only one who did this, numerous Jewish academics gave their own unique theories of the country that ignored the foundations of the various Protestant denominations.
This post was edited on 9/28/14 at 6:40 pm
Posted on 9/28/14 at 7:39 pm to AUin02
Besides over-writing to state the point, I enjoyed Atlas Shrugged not only as a work of political philosophy but also as science fiction. You probably just remember it as the book you had to read for a class and you were mad it was long. The plot was creative and worked together with the agenda of the novel to create a real believable example of the points being made, every step of the way. You just have to look at it as a whole to see how good it is.
Posted on 9/28/14 at 8:27 pm to REG861
Agree 100%. She was a Social Darwinist, and although that term is rarely used. Very Popular in 1920's pre crash America. The whole reason that Clarence Darrow took the Scopes Monkey Trial and William Jennings Bryant took the other side. You can not be a Christian and a Social Darwinist. Darrow was social darwinist atheist while Jennings was a Christian. He didnt fear Darwin he feared Social Darwinism. If we are no more than smart apes, then the strong should kill and dimiante the weak. They are intrinsically incomparable. Essentially we are each our net worth, and that is it. You are Rich because you are superior and the poor should be frowned upon or exterminated. The same theory exposed by the Nazis brought to them by the VRIL society, and Thule organization.
This theory has return to promote the destruction of the middle class by the elite. they make billions because they are smarter and better than you. You make less because you are less.
I am not a liberal, but 4th generation Southern Republican and well within the 2%. But I have studied and know history and this is a dangerous game that always ends in great violence and economic ruin .
This theory has return to promote the destruction of the middle class by the elite. they make billions because they are smarter and better than you. You make less because you are less.
I am not a liberal, but 4th generation Southern Republican and well within the 2%. But I have studied and know history and this is a dangerous game that always ends in great violence and economic ruin .
Posted on 9/28/14 at 8:34 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Seriously?
Yes. Seriously.
Rand Paul
Ronald Reagan
Ron Paul
Clarence Thomas
Gary Johnson
Mark Sanford
Have never met and don't know them personally. Reading comprehension seems to be another thing you struggle at, besides thinking and doing anything else at the same time, like breathing.
Posted on 9/28/14 at 9:33 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
Rand appeals to people who think better than the rest of the population.
there, fixed it for you.
Posted on 9/28/14 at 9:54 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:My dislike of Ayn Rand aside, why do you use the word conservative in the OP when you are specifically describing Republicans?
How the hell did a godless, militantly anti-community and anti-faith woman become admired by a political ideology that in reality is worlds apart from her?
Posted on 9/28/14 at 10:15 pm to Zach
That is exactly the just world theory as the affluent subscribe to it. The world is just; therefore, I am wealthy. The poor are undeserving of what my awesomeness gave me.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:41 am to Tigah in the ATL
This thread has been enlightening as to who the "big govt" right wingers are, the typical "everything's fine as long as we're in charge" Republican crowd thinks it needs a bogeyman now that the Obomber prog-leftys have fallen on their face.
'compassionate conservative' - code for 'we like big gov. too!'
'compassionate conservative' - code for 'we like big gov. too!'
This post was edited on 9/29/14 at 9:44 am
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:49 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
my fellow conservatives
I've always assumed you were one of the uber-liberal alters who has tried very hard to create a "conservative" image.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 9:51 am to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
That is exactly the just world theory as the affluent subscribe to it. The world is just; therefore, I am wealthy. The poor are undeserving of what my awesomeness gave me.
So, what's the problem? In a free society affluence comes from a lifetime of making wise choices. Poverty comes from a lifetime of making stupid choices. The 'life's lottery' argument is valid in terms of IQ being genetic. If you are born smart you have a greater capacity to make WISE choices than if you are born stupid. But that does not justify punishing wisdom and rewarding stupidity on the basis of egalitarianism.
Equality is not natural. Therefore attempts to force equality are doomed to fail.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 10:21 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
altruism
Because it rarely if ever exists. Look at anyone who does charity. It is in reality marketing/self-promotion and/or for self-fulfillment/purpose/enjoyment. Not charity.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 10:23 am to Jagd Tiger
The biggest takeaway anyone should get from Ayn Rand is she predicted the ridiculous names of government groups that were to come. I laugh every time I hear the name of a Bill or name of a Lobbying Group or Name of an Agency. She called that.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 10:27 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
Look at anyone who does charity. It is in reality marketing/self-promotion and/or for self-fulfillment/purpose/enjoyment. Not charity.
Every top pro golfer has a 'foundation' to 'give back to the community.' I'd like to see the tax advantage removed and we'll see who is altruistic and who is not.
Posted on 9/29/14 at 10:30 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Mainly because she was such a breath of fresh air when juxtaposed with expanding Socialist and Communist philosophies of her time.
This is my primary thought on it as well. Sort of, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. She did such a good job of identifying and illustrating the philosophies and tactics used by Leftists to stifle capitalism and free thought that it was...endearing (for lack of a better word).
Posted on 9/29/14 at 10:31 am to Tigah in the ATL
quote:False. I read Rand when I was dirt poor. And liked it -- because one can easily observe the progression she write about.
That is exactly the just world theory as the affluent subscribe to it.
But the again, all I ever expected was freedom to use skills and talent to better myself.
quote:Pathetic. My employees don't give me anything.
The world is just; therefore, I am wealthy. The poor are undeserving of what my awesomeness gave me.
We trade under mutually agreed terms. We disagree on value, but agree on price. For them, they value their time and effort less than they value the salary they receive. For me, I value their time and effort more than the salary I pay them. It's win-win situation.
Your false premise is that the worker-employee relationship is predatory.
If anyone is predatory in our society -- it's those that expect others to be forced into labor for other benefit of another with no exchange of value.
This post was edited on 9/29/14 at 10:49 am
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