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re: Good news for some. Pat Robertson says homosexuals will soon "die out"....
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:45 am to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 12/19/14 at 9:45 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Solid troll
Can you dispute the statement? Is it not a fact? Is name calling the best you can do Roger? If so that is ok. I expected it.
1
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:36 am to genuineLSUtiger
quote:
If you were taught the precepts of the Christian religion regarding the concept of being saved, burning in hellfire etc. at age 18 instead of being conditioned at birth you would see it for exactly what it is....bull shite.
I don't see the relevance of such a statement. How one comes to know an idea has nothing to do with whether or not the idea is true or not. It would be quite ludicrous for me to go up to someone and say the only reason you believe evolution is because you were born in 20th century America as opposed to 15th century Spain and then use that as some argument against the idea of evolution. Not to mention there are many that did not grow up in the Christian religion that came to it later in life rendering your seemingly absolute statement not only irrelevant but false.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:36 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
I've got no problem with Jesus. He was a wise dude who said some profound shite.
I hear ya boosie but if you don't believe Jesus in his entire package deal, how can you call him wise and profound? By Jesus claiming he was Lord, Savior, and God...surely you have to discount his wisdom and toss him in the looney bin. I mean even a mad man can say wise and profound things, but at the end of the day he would still be a nut job. So what I don't get is how you are able to compartmentalize the wise and profound things Jesus said and respect him but then still respect him with his raving lunacy when it comes to who he claimed himself to be??? Please help me understand your rationale...
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:42 am to Crimson1st
I don't doubt that a man named Yeshua existed around that time period in that same geographical location. I'm also aware that the Bible you guys cite was written by man and revised at Council upon Council back in the day. I'm also aware of the role religion played in the power structure back then. It makes no difference to me that those same men revising the text at those Councils decided to bolster their legitimacy by claiming that God spoke through them and what came from the Council was actually what God intended. Call me a cynic, but I think that's a bunch of self-serving bullshite.
Simply put, I don't much know or care if Jesus himself procliamed himself to be the Son of God or whether that was added later in order to confer legitimacy and power to those who claimed to speak for him and the Church.
Many of the things He said regarding how to treat one another and how to carry yourself on earth resonate with me and I think they're good principles to live by. However, I am also aware of the historical context of how and why the religion(s) that grew up around Jesus did, and I'm not going to discount what He said simply because a bunch of Dark Age aristocrats wanted to keep a stranglehold on power and wealth.
I like picking things from various religions around the world. There are a lot of wise men throughout history who claimed to be some sort of deity. I don't know if those men themselves actually said that or their followers added that later to bolster the legitimacy of their belief system. I don't think any religion has the one true claim to legitimacy and truly speaks for whomever or whatever (possibly) created us.
Simply put, I don't much know or care if Jesus himself procliamed himself to be the Son of God or whether that was added later in order to confer legitimacy and power to those who claimed to speak for him and the Church.
Many of the things He said regarding how to treat one another and how to carry yourself on earth resonate with me and I think they're good principles to live by. However, I am also aware of the historical context of how and why the religion(s) that grew up around Jesus did, and I'm not going to discount what He said simply because a bunch of Dark Age aristocrats wanted to keep a stranglehold on power and wealth.
I like picking things from various religions around the world. There are a lot of wise men throughout history who claimed to be some sort of deity. I don't know if those men themselves actually said that or their followers added that later to bolster the legitimacy of their belief system. I don't think any religion has the one true claim to legitimacy and truly speaks for whomever or whatever (possibly) created us.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 10:50 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:04 am to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
So you are calling the Holy Ghost a liar ? Remember the unpardonable sin is blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Just for the record. Revelations is a Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostle John. Revelations 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the keys to the bottomless pit and a great chain in hand. 2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and he bound him a THOUSAND YEARS. 3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, TILL THE THOUSAND YEARS should be fulfilled: and after he must be loosed a little season. Go on, call the Holy Ghost a liar. The unpardonable sin is speaking against the Holy Ghost.
If the angel cast you into a bottomless pit and shut you up, I would be all for believing this.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:14 am to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
Just for the record. Revelations is a Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostle John.
Actually, most Biblical scholars believe that the John that wrote Revelations was NOT the Apostle.
But I know that's not what your told at your little church, so it cant be right.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:18 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
I like picking things from various religions around the world. I don't think any religion has the one true claim to legitimacy and truly speaks for whomever or whatever (possibly) created us.
I understand that you like to peruse the tenets of different religions like this and that is certainly easy to do and glean some useful information BUT in the end there is only one faith who has it fully accurate if you even chose to believe. I say this because when all is said and done, if you choose to believe in a faith, somebody has to be correct and the others which claim their way was the way must be wrong. If you say "Well there are some religions who claim you can believe what you want and still be ok." If you subscribe to that belief, I wouldn't really say that involves any leap of faith, or a minimal one at best.
Don't get me wrong, doing research and learning is great, but my advice is let that guide you to a faith that you, through your research, find to be the one that speaks the unblemished truth. Furthermore, try not to let some of the so called adherents to that faith, who adhere to the name more than the practice of the faith, derail your understanding of it and what it actually stands for. As a Christian I can say that Satan has a lot of plants in Christendom to sour potential followers to the faith...don't let them represent the true intent of Christianity.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 11:20 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:28 am to BayouBlitz
quote:The author is debated. There is evidence that the John who wrote Revelation may not be the apostle, but that evidence isn't conclusive. Within 100 years of its alleged writing, other early Christian "fathers" were attributing the book/letter to the apostle John.
Actually, most Biblical scholars believe that the John that wrote Revelations was NOT the Apostle.
But I know that's not what your told at your little church, so it cant be right.
While it isn't certain who the author is, there is no reason to deny its place in scripture, IMO.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:31 am to Crimson1st
quote:
somebody has to be correct and the others which claim their way was the way must be wrong.
No, they don't. All religions are literally men making laws and then proclaiming that those laws were given to them by God.
If you can't see how that process can be fallible, then I don't know what to tell you.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 11:31 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:35 am to boosiebadazz
quote:I think what he is saying is that one religion is "right" or they are all "wrong".
No, they don't. All religions are literally men making laws and then proclaiming that those laws were given to them by God.
If you can't see how that process can be fallible, then I don't know what to tell you.
The different religions of the world have various truth claims that are contradictory to other truth claims made by other religions. Due to the law of noncontradiction, if there is a contradiction, one may be right or both may be wrong, but they both can't be right at the same time in the same sense. In other words, A cannot be A and not-A at the same time.
Therefore, to pick and choose "truth" from different religions is arbitrary and pretty much guaranteed to be "wrong" when added up in totality. Even if you did have nuggets of truth, how would you know and how could you judge it to be true while something else false?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:52 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I think what he is saying is that one religion is "right" or they are all "wrong".
The different religions of the world have various truth claims that are contradictory to other truth claims made by other religions. Due to the law of noncontradiction, if there is a contradiction, one may be right or both may be wrong, but they both can't be right at the same time in the same sense. In other words, A cannot be A and not-A at the same time.
Therefore, to pick and choose "truth" from different religions is arbitrary and pretty much guaranteed to be "wrong" when added up in totality. Even if you did have nuggets of truth, how would you know and how could you judge it to be true while something else false?
The god I believe in doesn't require a necessary score of truths in order to get in to heaven.
Oh, you get 3 points for believing X from Catholicism, 2 points for blieving Y from Buddhism, and 4 points for believing Z from Hinduism. Doesn't work like that.
Likewise, I don't believe religions are mutually exclusive in the sense that one religion has all the answers and is exactly right and then all the other religions are wrong, even if they share some of the principles of the 'correct' religion. To me, that is entirely too simplistic of a way to view it.
Coupled with what I said earlier about religions literally being created by men and then those same men then legitimizing those laws with the 'mouthpiece of god' nonsense, you'll understand why I respectfully disagree with you and the other poster's ideas abnout the exclusivity of one religion having it all figured it out.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 11:54 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:55 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:I'm not talking about keeping score, but understanding truth. How do you know anything about God if you cannot trust anything written by men about Him? Picking and choosing what sounds right to you from various religions might seem to work for you, but what basis do you use to determine what is right and wrong from any particular religion?
The god I believe in doesn't require a necessary score of truths in order to get in to heaven.
Oh, you get 3 points for believing X from Catholicism, 2 points for blieving Y from Buddhism, and 4 points for believing Z from Hinduism. Doesn't work like that.
quote:I believe it's Occam's razor that states that the simplest explanation is best when the truth is not certain. In that regard, I don't think having a simple way to view truth is a bad thing.
Likewise, I don't believe religions are mutually exclusive in the sense that one religion has all the answers and is exactly right and then all the other religions are wrong, even if they share some of the principles of the 'correct' religion. To me, that is entirely too simplistic of a way to view it.
To your point, though, you seem to be saying that you don't believe any single religion has all the answers, therefore you can pick and choose at will from any of them to come up with a system of belief that you believe to be true. If that's the case, how do you determine truth? If you don't believe the Bible, the Qur'an, the Bhagavad Gita, or any other religious text is accurate in its entirety, how can you believe anything they say at all in order to incorporate those pieces into your own system?
quote:You and others often say "written by men" as if to say a particular religious text is "completely fabricated out of nothing by men with vivid imaginations". Those of us who Believe that the Bible is the word of God also believe that the text was written down by men (several) over a long period of time, but what we also believe is that those men were inspired by God to write the truths that He wanted to communicate to mankind.
Coupled with what I said earlier about religions literally being created by men and then those same men then legitimizing those laws with the 'mouthpiece of god' nonsense, you'll understand why I respectfully disagree with you and the other poster's ideas abnout the exclusivity of one religion having it all figured it out.
If, then, those words are true, then anything contradictory to them from other religious texts must be false. The same can be said for those other religious texts: if they are true, anything contradictory to them must be false. If you don't think that a particular religion has exclusive rights to the truth, then you must have a pretty accurate way of knowing the truth. Care to share?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 1:19 pm to dawg2357
quote:
Not to mention there are many that did not grow up in the Christian religion that came to it later in life rendering your seemingly absolute statement not only irrelevant but false.
You can say the same for any religion. Mormonism, Islam, Buddhism etc. That doesn't give any of them any more credence as the absolute word of god. There is a common spiritual underpinning to all religions. The religions themselves are manmade subjective interpretations of various unknown men over time. It is unfortunate that the vast majority of Christians do not even know the history of how their religion was formed. I was raised Southern Baptist and they never wanted to talk about that. Start objectively investigating the origins and evolution of the Christian religion and, with the information available today online, there is no way you cannot come away with serious questions about what you have been conditioned to believe by parents, society etc. It takes an open mind to look into it. You can't simply read authors and apologists who confirm your bias. Watch some Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and really listen to and read what they are saying.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 1:29 pm to genuineLSUtiger
As someone who has thoroughly researched the origins of the Christian religion and listened to a lot of what Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, and others have to say, I can tell you that it has not changed what I believe at all. In fact, it has only strengthened my convictions.
You make it sound like everyone who believes in Christ and the teachings of the Bible are just ignorant and if they can only be shown the truth, they would abandon their foolish faith. Coincidentally, that's exactly what Christians think about people like you.
You make it sound like everyone who believes in Christ and the teachings of the Bible are just ignorant and if they can only be shown the truth, they would abandon their foolish faith. Coincidentally, that's exactly what Christians think about people like you.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:15 pm to genuineLSUtiger
quote:
You can say the same for any religion. Mormonism, Islam, Buddhism etc. That doesn't give any of them any more credence as the absolute word of god.
I'm well aware. Im not using the argument that because someone outside the faith comes to it later renders that particular faith true. Im arguing against the idea that the origination of an idea, whether by your parents or any other method, renders that idea false by nature of its origination and not the truth value of the idea itself.
quote:
There is a common spiritual underpinning to all religions. The religions themselves are manmade subjective interpretations of various unknown men over time.
Can I not say the same for your idea? The idea that there is such thing as a universal spirituality is a manmade idea, so it too must fall.
quote:
Start objectively investigating the origins and evolution of the Christian religion and, with the information available today online, there is no way you cannot come away with serious questions about what you have been conditioned to believe by parents, society etc. It takes an open mind to look into it.
It is never a good thing to assume that a person has not done these things when they hold a different viewpoint.
quote:
Watch some Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and really listen to and read what they are saying.
Hume, J. L. Mackie, and Bertrand Russell are far better.
I can understand Hitchens and maybe Harris, but Dawkins should never be used as a source of reference for this particular topic.
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 12/19/14 at 2:35 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
I don't doubt that a man named Yeshua existed around that time period in that same geographical location. I'm also aware that the Bible you guys cite was written by man and revised at Council upon Council back in the day. I'm also aware of the role religion played in the power structure back then. It makes no difference to me that those same men revising the text at those Councils decided to bolster their legitimacy by claiming that God spoke through them and what came from the Council was actually what God intended. Call me a cynic, but I think that's a bunch of self-serving bullshite.
Simply put, I don't much know or care if Jesus himself procliamed himself to be the Son of God or whether that was added later in order to confer legitimacy and power to those who claimed to speak for him and the Church.
Many of the things He said regarding how to treat one another and how to carry yourself on earth resonate with me and I think they're good principles to live by. However, I am also aware of the historical context of how and why the religion(s) that grew up around Jesus did, and I'm not going to discount what He said simply because a bunch of Dark Age aristocrats wanted to keep a stranglehold on power and wealth.
I like picking things from various religions around the world. There are a lot of wise men throughout history who claimed to be some sort of deity. I don't know if those men themselves actually said that or their followers added that later to bolster the legitimacy of their belief system. I don't think any religion has the one true claim to legitimacy and truly speaks for whomever or whatever (possibly) created us.
Hands down the best post I´ve read on this site. And I´ve been here for 10 years.
ETA: Apparently I´ve only been on this site since 2007... wtf
This post was edited on 12/19/14 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 12/19/14 at 8:00 pm to FooManChoo
Dude, he doesn't understand that the bible was written by the Holy Spirit. There is nothing you can tell people like this, because they know it all already, but they don't know anything.
Just by reading the words of Jesus you can understand that he is not of this world.
You cant know Christ until you are willing to lay down your ways and submit to his ways. These people haven't got one clue about how the Holy SPIRIT is an actual being that lives, and that Christians meet and that is as real as if you nd I were talking.
But why should we expect people who have never accepted Christ to know the Holy Spirit ?
It is impossible.
Jesus went into the desert, led by the Holy Spirit, once Satan offered him the Kingdom of all the world and Jesus, by the word, turned him down in every instance, only then did Jesus come out of the desert IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.
Obediance is the only way to gain the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Just by reading the words of Jesus you can understand that he is not of this world.
You cant know Christ until you are willing to lay down your ways and submit to his ways. These people haven't got one clue about how the Holy SPIRIT is an actual being that lives, and that Christians meet and that is as real as if you nd I were talking.
But why should we expect people who have never accepted Christ to know the Holy Spirit ?
It is impossible.
Jesus went into the desert, led by the Holy Spirit, once Satan offered him the Kingdom of all the world and Jesus, by the word, turned him down in every instance, only then did Jesus come out of the desert IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.
Obediance is the only way to gain the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 8:39 pm to cwill
quote:
I find it very strange that there are educated adults walking around that believe this specific stuff...not God, but this weird sin/punishment scheme.
Agreed
Believing in God in and of itself doesn't seem strange to me at all, but seeing otherwise intelligent, high functioning adults arguing over things like sin, the end times, the fate of Satan...it just blows my mind. It's like listening to kids argue over the intricacies of Superman's powers.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 8:40 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
Jesus went into the desert, led by the Holy Spirit, once
If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God, this doesn't make sense to me
Posted on 12/19/14 at 8:43 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
seeing otherwise intelligent, high functioning adults arguing over things like sin, the end times, the fate of Satan...it just blows my mind. It's like listening to kids argue over the intricacies of Superman's powers
It's bizarre really. Truly bizarre. It's like they believe in cartoons or something.
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