re: FDR second bill of rights

I see a lot of over reaching in all of this.

Let's compare... The right to arms vs right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

People in this thread are suggesting that in the later, the government shall supply. In the former,it's not the gov, but rather the individual obtains it.

When I see the wording, it's the same as the 2nd. Add to that the word earn does not equal give by the gov tit.

I didn't read it like that at all.

Protecting yourself is a natural right. All the things FDR listed are an individual's responsibilities.

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People in this thread are suggesting that in the later, the government shall supply.

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In FDR's world, who do you think gets to choose what determines "adequate", "decent", "good", "useful" or "unfair"?

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

vs

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



How is that any different? You are taking one with history behind it, and assuming the other would be different. I'm asking based on what?

You are assuming that the gov would provide that some how. I don't see it. I see it in the same context as the 2nd. The right to seek out.

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The right to a good education.

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There is no such thing as a right to any education other than what an individual can learn from personal experience and observation. There can only be a privilege of educational instruction. I agree with granting the privilege to instruction limited to some norm determined by society as being in society's interest.

FDR was a great leader and a poor president. His leadership was very beneficial leading up to and during the second world war, but his social and financial policies left a lasting negative imprint.

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FDR was a great leader and a poor president. His leadership was very beneficial leading up to and during the second world war, but his social and financial policies left a lasting negative imprint.

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He might have been a good leader, but I view him as a good leader in the same view as Mao or Stalin. Both were good leaders, but negative leaders.

The problem with FDR(and Obama now) is that people view them as good leaders because they feel like they have good intentions. To hell with the results of their policies, all that matters is if their intentions were good.

There is a lot of "dumb" in this thread. To begin with, FDR is considered great because of the leadership he showed and his ability to connect with the public, especially the common man. Think about it, he was elected 4 times. For many, he gave hope. His public works programs got people off their asses at a time when everything looked hopeless.

FDR did not cause the Great Depression and the success of his policies were definitely a mixed bag. Some made things worse, some helped. Keep in mind that the crash of 29 happened on Hoover's watch and resulted in his increasing foreign tariffs with the Smoot Harwley Act - and shut down international trade. It was a punitive law. Along with this Hoover passed legislation to keep prices high in order to keep wages high, but consumption dropped drastically.

The new Federal Reserve reacted to the 29 crash by cutting the money supply in order to teach irresponsible banks a lesson. The result was the failure of many banks, and keep in mind this was before the creation of the FDIC, which insured the savings of the individual. Give credit to FDR for that. So while the banks were punished, so were millions of individuals.

There was a Great Drought happening at the same time. FDR's social policies offered protection for elderly, at a time when America was much more rural than it is today. With bank failures and the drought, compounded by unwise govt policies that failed (crop destruction), these people were desperate. Nothing exists today in America to compare to it.

As for the war, it was pretty much Keynesian in its application - huge government spending that left the US govt with the largest debt to GDP ratio in its history - over 100%. Thankfully, the US economy was able to charge forward in the 50's, but the national debt brought on by the war was not paid off until the 1960s. We got lucky that our infrastructure was intact and much of the rest of the world needed re-building.

Hardly anything can be correctly viewed as either black or white. There are always many shades of gray. The generation that benefited from FDR's policies, your parents, grand parents, or great grand parents would shite a brick if they read some of this tripe. Many of them had more reverence for FDR than is presently held for Reagan.

Ignorance is abound. The reasoning here sometimes is reduced to this: Government - Bad / Individuals - Good.



From Ronald Reagan

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As president, Reagan often mentioned his admiration for FDR’s spirit of leadership. On a trip back to his alma mater, Eureka College, in 1984, he reminded his listeners what it was like to experience the Great Depression, and how the Fireside Chats had been so reassuring. “All of us who lived through those years,” he instructed them, “remember the drabness the depression brought. But we remember, too, how people pulled together, that sense of community and shared values, that belief in American enterprise and democracy that saw us through. It was that engrained American optimism, that sense of hope Franklin Roosevelt so brilliantly summoned and mobilized.” In his view, FDR was instrumental in reviving an inherent American optimism that was endangered by the economic crisis.

Twice he spoke at events honoring Roosevelt. The first was in 1982. He had visited the FDR exhibit at the Smithsonian Institution, then returned to the White House for a luncheon that included the Roosevelt family. Naturally, when speaking in front of someone’s family, one avoids comments critical of a loved one. The speech was instead a tribute to FDR’s leadership. Reagan called him “one of history’s truly monumental figures,” “an American giant, a leader who shaped, inspired, and led our people through perilous times,” one who could “reach out to men and women of diverse races and backgrounds and inspire them with new hope and new confidence in war and peace.”

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I'm not sure what is scarier- the fact that this was a president speaking, or his naive belief that people would actually work if they were given everything for free

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I don't know what's scarier, the fact that you can't read or the fact that you're driving when there are sometimes complicated road signs.

No where does FDR say he had a

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belief that people would actually work if they were given everything for free.

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This is getting to be a habit with you. Starting threads on false premises. I may have to take this to the Help Board. That's what you do right?

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“Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

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No, it is the perceived "solutions" offered by opportunists that are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

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stuntman

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Ideology: A

History: F-