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Economist Predicts Fossil Fuel Vehicles No Longer Sold In 8 Years

Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:06 am
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51680 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:06 am
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quote:

No more petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will be sold anywhere in the world within eight years. The entire market for land transport will switch to electrification, leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century.

This is the futuristic forecast by Stanford University economist Tony Seba. His report, with the deceptively bland title Rethinking Transportation 2020-2030, has gone viral in green circles and is causing spasms of anxiety in the established industries.


I agree with some of his reasoning (I don't think oil will drop back to $25/barrel anytime soon) but I think he gets carried away with his optimism and ignores the motivation factor of Joe Consumer.

Unless a consumer is in the market for a new vehicle, they'll stick with what they have. And you also have the whole Used/Pre-Owned market. As long as gasoline stays below $3-$4/gallon the incentive for many buyers will be to stick with a fossil fuel vehicle.

There's also the whole issue about recharge time. People wanting to take road trips aren't going to just go 200-300 miles then call it a day while they wait for the car to charge (battery replacement stations could be viable, but that's getting into the weeds a bit much for now).

quote:


Seba’s premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles.


quote:

The “tipping point” will arrive over the next two to three years as EV battery ranges surpass 200 miles and electric car prices in the US drop to $30,000. By 2022 the low-end models will be down to $20,000. After that, the avalanche will sweep all before it.


I agree with his tipping point (and have stated something similar on these forums for a while now) but I think he fails to take into account the used car market, especially as the prices on those drop to almost nothing as the new tech pushes the old tech out. At that point finding a year-old Lexus with 12k miles for $6k is still going to be a very attractive offer.

It took about 23 years for the Model T to replace the horse and buggy (depending on what you are looking at as start/finish points). Going from fossil fuel to electric isn't as dramatic a change as going from horse and buggy to a car so there's no real reason to expect the market to change that much in such a short amount of time.

But, like winter, it is coming.
Posted by AggieDub14
Oil Baron
Member since Oct 2015
14624 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:06 am to
quote:

No more petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will be sold anywhere in the world within eight years. The entire market for land transport will switch to electrification, leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century.


Are we fricked? Without any money, what will OPEC countries do next?
Posted by tiggerthetooth
Big Momma's House
Member since Oct 2010
61289 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:08 am to
quote:


It took about 23 years for the Model T to replace the horse and buggy (depending on what you are looking at as start/finish points). Going from fossil fuel to electric isn't as dramatic a change as going from horse and buggy to a car so there's no real reason to expect the market to change that much in such a short amount of time.



Exactly, but its worth mentioning electric vehicles are not void of any carbon footprint...they barely emit less carbon emissions over the vehicle's lifespan than a fossil fueled vehicle.


I don't see this happening in the next 50 years. Maybe after 50 years.
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:09 am to
quote:

There's also the whole issue about recharge time. People wanting to take road trips aren't going to just go 200-300 miles then call it a day while they wait for the car to charge (battery replacement stations could be viable, but that's getting into the weeds a bit much for now).
Tesla has charging speeds up to 20 minutes for 0-50%. I used to think battery replacement was the way to go but now I'm guessing iterative improvements on battery tech will get there first.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
37538 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:10 am to
That's pretty funny.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
53019 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:10 am to
I can't wait til all you little Eugenes get out there with your electric cars

Ima roll coal on your bitchasses
Posted by Sid in Lakeshore
Member since Oct 2008
41956 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:10 am to
quote:

No more petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will be sold anywhere in the world within eight years. The entire market for land transport will switch to electrification, leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century.

This is the futuristic forecast by Stanford University economist Tony Seba.


Zero chance this happens within the next 8 or 18 years.........
Posted by Blizzard of Chizz
Member since Apr 2012
19064 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:12 am to
quote:

The entire market for land transport will switch to electrification,


And how is the vast majority of electricity produced?
Posted by demtigers73
Coastal Club
Member since Aug 2014
5529 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:12 am to
quote:

No more petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will be sold anywhere in the world within eight years.




Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:13 am to
quote:

And how is the vast majority of electricity produced?
There's no one sector with a majority but natural gas is the biggest plurality
Posted by Eli Goldfinger
Member since Sep 2016
32785 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:14 am to
We are living in the future
I tell ya how I know
I read it in the paper
15 years ago

We're all driving rocket ships
and talking with our minds
and wearing turquoise jewelry
and standing in soup lines
Posted by Blizzard of Chizz
Member since Apr 2012
19064 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:14 am to
quote:

There's no one sector with a majority but natural gas is the biggest plurality


Would it be safe to say that fossil fuels play a significant role?
Posted by 90proofprofessional
Member since Mar 2004
24445 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:15 am to
quote:

Tony Seba

Not an economist. A self-described "thought leader" and entrepreneur. Is the rest of the article any better?
Posted by Eli Goldfinger
Member since Sep 2016
32785 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:16 am to
quote:

Economist Predicts Fossil Fuel Vehicles No Longer Sold In 8 Years


Electric cars simply take fossil fuel consumption out of the fuel tank and shifts it to electricity producers (coal plants).
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:16 am to
quote:

Would it be safe to say that fossil fuels play a significant role?
Well yeah but natural gas is a lot cleaner than coal (and also a lot cleaner than car exhaust)
Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
54212 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:17 am to
quote:

Economist Predicts Fossil Fuel Vehicles No Longer Sold In 8 Years


At him, not at you.
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
58915 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:21 am to
quote:

Tesla has charging speeds up to 20 minutes for 0-50%.



Out of curiosity....would another 20 minutes charge it up completely, or does the charging process slow down? Or do you know? I think it would be a good thing if we could go electric, but with the much higher cost of electric vehicles, I just don't see it happening for awhile, much less in the next 8 years.
Posted by DawgsLife
Member since Jun 2013
58915 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:25 am to
quote:

And how is the vast majority of electricity produced?


Gotta admit, I didn't see that coming.

44.9% coal, 23.4% Natural gas and 20.3% Nuclear.
Posted by Blizzard of Chizz
Member since Apr 2012
19064 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:25 am to
So really there is no net benefit. If you do away with cars that run on fossil fuels and switch to electric, that leads to a greater demand for electricity. It would take a massive increase in electricity production to power our daily commuting needs. That demand for fossil fuels would still exist because they would be need it in great quantities to generate electricity.
Posted by tigerbater
New Orleans, LA
Member since Apr 2011
661 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:27 am to
Do you live in India? Cause in the U.S., 70% electricity is generated from a source other than coal.
This post was edited on 5/18/17 at 10:13 am
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