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Started By
Message
re: Did Texas kill an innocent man?
Posted on 8/4/14 at 3:52 pm to FalseProphet
Posted on 8/4/14 at 3:52 pm to FalseProphet
quote:
The forensic evidence says he didn't do it.
The evidence only says that the investigators may not have done as good as job as they should have. But even that is based on them following standards and practices that did not come into effect until years AFTER the fire.
Furthermore, Beyler (the "expert") is questioned as not being truly neutral, but taking sides in favor of Willingham. For example, the rebuttal has him attributing quotes to the investigators that are completely absent from the trial record.
Interestingly, Beyler's investigative abilities were severely chastised by the Texas Supreme Court in 2010 for being sloppy:LINK
quote:
The main witness against him admitted he was paid to lie.
But other witnesses (as mentioned above, some of whom were actually at the scene) show that he repeatedly told different stories to different people, in virtually every major facet of the entire incident. It's one thing to get one part of the story confused--especially when your three children are now dead--it's another to have multiple versions of multiple incidents. Does the term "guilty conscience" come to mind?
quote:
Do you think he should have been put to death?
For deliberately starting a fire that killed his three children (two of whom were with the mother with whom he was having marital troubles), absolutely without question the death penalty was justified in this case.
2
Posted on 8/4/14 at 3:55 pm to FalseProphet
quote:You feel First Degree Murder is not extreme?
Cite extreme cases all you want. I do not think that any sense of justice justifies the death penalty (aka state-sponsored murder).
Really?
There are individuals very comfortable with life in prison.
You feel the appropriate consequence of First Degree Murder is to return those individuals to an environment they are relatively comfortable with?
You feel the appropriate consequence for perpetrators of the Wichita Horror is life in prison?
Suffice it to say we strongly disagree.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 3:59 pm to Quidam65
quote:I will say that any instance of a prosecutor hiding and/or manipulating evidence in a capital murder case should land the guilty prosector(s) behind bars. If that was the case here, there is zero excuse for it.
The evidence only says that the investigators may not have done as good as job as they should have.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 4:04 pm to Eurocat
Amazing how Texas Monthly will use Willingham and the Lake Waco murders to show how "evil" the death penalty is.
But where is their article on this case? LINK
The ringleader (Rivas) was ALREADY serving EIGHTEEN consecutive 15-to-life sentences when he led the breakout. Rodriguez was doing 99-to-life, Newbury had a 99-year sentence, Harper, Garcia, and Murphy were doing 50-year sentences. The escapee with the SHORTEST sentence (Halprin) was doing 30 for injury to a child.
In addition to Officer Aubrey Hawkins (who left Christmas dinner to respond to the call) one of the supervisors at the prison was killed as well.
But where is their article on this case? LINK
The ringleader (Rivas) was ALREADY serving EIGHTEEN consecutive 15-to-life sentences when he led the breakout. Rodriguez was doing 99-to-life, Newbury had a 99-year sentence, Harper, Garcia, and Murphy were doing 50-year sentences. The escapee with the SHORTEST sentence (Halprin) was doing 30 for injury to a child.
In addition to Officer Aubrey Hawkins (who left Christmas dinner to respond to the call) one of the supervisors at the prison was killed as well.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 6:13 pm to Quidam65
quote:
The evidence only says that the investigators may not have done as good as job as they should have.
The only reason Willingham is dead is because faulty/discredited information was used to establish that a crime took place.
Suppose "not doing as good of a job as they should have" is sufficient to establish there was not sufficient evidence to demonstrate that an arson even occurred?
I have not read whether or not this can be established from what is now established forensic evidence, but I have read that such an endeavor for determining this has been blocked by Gov Perry.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 6:33 pm to FalseProphet
quote:
I'm waiting for the Supremes to reverse course on that whole cruel and unusual thing.
Considering how they gave zero fricks about the Arizona inmate's execution recently and simply vacated the 9th's stay in just a few short sentences, you'll be waiting a long time.
I support the death penalty as its an appropriate punishment for murder and there are crimes that need to be paid for in blood but I recognize that it needs to be handed out less often and in sure fire cases as there's a problem with human testimony not being irrevocable. However, there's a problem with how anti DP people are trying to end with something that's not there with execution methods. The recent issues with lethal injection is only going to push states towards hypoxia and nitrogen asphyxiation.
This post was edited on 8/4/14 at 6:34 pm
Posted on 8/4/14 at 6:37 pm to FalseProphet
quote:
How many first world countries have the death penalty these days?
Peaceful countries that use it; Japan, Malaysia, India, Thailand, and USA.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 6:43 pm to genuineLSUtiger
quote:
Isn't the intent of the death penalty to deter crime?
No.
It was never intended to be a deterrent. It's a punishment that fits a crime that's equal with the punishment. Any pro DP people that says its a deterrent is incorrect. There's no deterrent for an irrational decision to commit the ultimate crime and take a life.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 7:07 pm to FalseProphet
quote:
No, not giving up.
quote:
Nothing I say to you will change your mind.
After this post, don't you ever let anybody catch you saying this board is an echo chamber of groupthink after you participated in it for 3 pages.
Posted on 8/4/14 at 7:10 pm to FalseProphet
My opinion is that the death penalty should be used extremely rarely when there is an extreme amount of hard evidence found to convict.
But also that is should be an expedited process.
Make a quick and rare.
But also that is should be an expedited process.
Make a quick and rare.
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