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Message
re: Did Confederate soldiers get veterans benefits?
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:29 pm to The Pirate King
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:29 pm to The Pirate King
We were. I thought this was common knowledge.
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:30 pm to SouthernHog
quote:
They had already formed their own country
Cool.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:30 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I thought we were tearing down statues of confederates because they were Nazis?
I don't know why you're tearing down statues. I'm not.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:30 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
No, they haven't. They were eventually given veteran status so that their dependents (widows) could receive benefits.
Most had died off at that point. That doesn't make them "American soldiers" or "US soldiers."
They were traitors that were given a pass because that's what leadership thought would help the country move forward. Good call...
Right.
Confederate solders were traitors no matter what rationale some try to ignore that with.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:31 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
Then going by your metric, our founding fathers and all of the men who fought Britain were all traitors for the revolutionary war.
Absolutely, but I'm American, not British.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:31 pm to Tiguar
Traitors, by definition. I don't really care if you agree with that.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:32 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Confederate solders were NOT traitors no matter what rationale some try to ignore that with.
FIFY
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:33 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Absolutely, but I'm American, not British.
Ok, so what makes confederate veterans worse than the original revolutionary war vets? A traitor is a traitor...
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:33 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
The South made their intentions clear. There was no betrayal but more of a "we are taking our ball and going home" kinda thing.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:34 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Not traitors by legal definition. Dont think by traditional definition either. I don't care what you think about that.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:34 pm to The Pirate King
Traitors are the ones who didnt write the history books
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:35 pm to Tiguar
(no message)
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:36 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Union veterans knew the deal.
"In agreeing to the return of the "rebel banners," however, Cleveland precipitated a political tempest that revived the passions of wartime and even contributed to the President's defeat in his bid for reelection.
Notwithstanding the passage of time, the Civil War remained vivid in the national memory. Future Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who was three times wounded as a Union officer, would later write that "our hearts were touched with fire." There was a tremendous pride in both armies, and much of it was focused on a soldier's own regiment. A unit's flag was to be defended to the death, and flags of the enemy - often seized in hand-to-hand combat - were the most prized contraband.
Not all of this was apparent to Grover Cleveland. Diligent and honest, he was nevertheless the first president since the war not to have served in the Union armies. It was a sore subject. As a young man, he and his two brothers had drawn straws to decide which of them would stay home and support their widowed mother. Cleveland had drawn the short straw, and as a result spent the war years as a lawyer in Buffalo, New York. He hired a substitute, George Brinski, a Polish immigrant. The practice was both legal and common; President Lincoln had himself hired a substitute, to remove any stigma from the practice. Nevertheless, Grover Cleveland's noncombatant status was not calculated to endear him to Union veterans.
...Still, agitation over Cleveland's vetoes would pale by comparison to that over his proposal to return the rebel flags. Following his meeting with the President, Secretary Endicott sent circular letters to Southern governors, indicating the government's willingness to return the flags. The first Northern politician to see political potential in Cleveland's proposal was Governor Joseph B. Foraker of Ohio, who faced a tough campaign for reelection. "No rebel flags will be surrendered while I am governor," telegraphed "Fire Engine Joe," ignoring the fact that Cleveland's order applied only to those flags gathering dust in Washington. "The patriotic people of this state are shocked and indignant beyond anything I can express."
Foraker was quickly joined by a formidable ally, the Commander in Chief of the Grand Army of the Republic, General Lucius Fairchild. Speaking of Cleveland's order before a gathering of veterans, Fairchild thundered, "May God palsy the brain that conceived it, and may God palsy the tongue that dictated it!"
As letters and telegrams - most of them critical - poured into the normally somnolent White House, Cleveland realized that he had stirred up a hornet's nest. The New Yorker was a courageous man - many thought him stubborn - but he was not eager to take on the G.A.R. In a letter to Secretary Endicott on June 15, Cleveland advised that he had reconsidered the matter of the flags "with more care than when the subject was orally presented to me." As a result, he had decided to return of the flags by presidential edict "is not authorized by existing law nor justified as an Executive act." Disposition of the flags, he wrote, should be left to Congress.
If Cleveland thought that this strategic retreat would bring the matter to a close he was very much mistaken. The G.A.R. - numbering some 400,000 Union veterans - was at this time the most formidable lobby in the country. Democrats and Republicans alike wooed the old soldiers with promises of pension and other benefits, but in practice the G.A.R. was an offshoot of the Republican party. It was the Republicans - "the party of Lincoln" - for whom the G.A.R. turned out the vote. Now, with a Democratic president in the White House, the veterans' organization was not prepared to let the matter of the flags die away...Cleveland had previously accepted an invitation to visit the Grand Army of the Republic at its annual encampment at St. Louis. After some strong hints from the G.A.R. leadership. however, Cleveland withdrew his acceptance. At a G.A.R. reunion in Wheeling, West Virginia, there was a near riot when some parading units refused to march under a banner that included a portrait of Cleveland."
LINK
This has almost been forgotten but the Union veterans knew the deal.
Rebels were traitors.
"In agreeing to the return of the "rebel banners," however, Cleveland precipitated a political tempest that revived the passions of wartime and even contributed to the President's defeat in his bid for reelection.
Notwithstanding the passage of time, the Civil War remained vivid in the national memory. Future Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, who was three times wounded as a Union officer, would later write that "our hearts were touched with fire." There was a tremendous pride in both armies, and much of it was focused on a soldier's own regiment. A unit's flag was to be defended to the death, and flags of the enemy - often seized in hand-to-hand combat - were the most prized contraband.
Not all of this was apparent to Grover Cleveland. Diligent and honest, he was nevertheless the first president since the war not to have served in the Union armies. It was a sore subject. As a young man, he and his two brothers had drawn straws to decide which of them would stay home and support their widowed mother. Cleveland had drawn the short straw, and as a result spent the war years as a lawyer in Buffalo, New York. He hired a substitute, George Brinski, a Polish immigrant. The practice was both legal and common; President Lincoln had himself hired a substitute, to remove any stigma from the practice. Nevertheless, Grover Cleveland's noncombatant status was not calculated to endear him to Union veterans.
...Still, agitation over Cleveland's vetoes would pale by comparison to that over his proposal to return the rebel flags. Following his meeting with the President, Secretary Endicott sent circular letters to Southern governors, indicating the government's willingness to return the flags. The first Northern politician to see political potential in Cleveland's proposal was Governor Joseph B. Foraker of Ohio, who faced a tough campaign for reelection. "No rebel flags will be surrendered while I am governor," telegraphed "Fire Engine Joe," ignoring the fact that Cleveland's order applied only to those flags gathering dust in Washington. "The patriotic people of this state are shocked and indignant beyond anything I can express."
Foraker was quickly joined by a formidable ally, the Commander in Chief of the Grand Army of the Republic, General Lucius Fairchild. Speaking of Cleveland's order before a gathering of veterans, Fairchild thundered, "May God palsy the brain that conceived it, and may God palsy the tongue that dictated it!"
As letters and telegrams - most of them critical - poured into the normally somnolent White House, Cleveland realized that he had stirred up a hornet's nest. The New Yorker was a courageous man - many thought him stubborn - but he was not eager to take on the G.A.R. In a letter to Secretary Endicott on June 15, Cleveland advised that he had reconsidered the matter of the flags "with more care than when the subject was orally presented to me." As a result, he had decided to return of the flags by presidential edict "is not authorized by existing law nor justified as an Executive act." Disposition of the flags, he wrote, should be left to Congress.
If Cleveland thought that this strategic retreat would bring the matter to a close he was very much mistaken. The G.A.R. - numbering some 400,000 Union veterans - was at this time the most formidable lobby in the country. Democrats and Republicans alike wooed the old soldiers with promises of pension and other benefits, but in practice the G.A.R. was an offshoot of the Republican party. It was the Republicans - "the party of Lincoln" - for whom the G.A.R. turned out the vote. Now, with a Democratic president in the White House, the veterans' organization was not prepared to let the matter of the flags die away...Cleveland had previously accepted an invitation to visit the Grand Army of the Republic at its annual encampment at St. Louis. After some strong hints from the G.A.R. leadership. however, Cleveland withdrew his acceptance. At a G.A.R. reunion in Wheeling, West Virginia, there was a near riot when some parading units refused to march under a banner that included a portrait of Cleveland."
LINK
This has almost been forgotten but the Union veterans knew the deal.
Rebels were traitors.
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:36 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
They were traitors
wrong...but if you think they were traitors then you must admit the founding fathers were traitors too...
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:37 pm to The Pirate King
quote:
Ok, so what makes confederate veterans worse than the original revolutionary war vets?
I already covered that...
quote:
I'm American, not British.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:37 pm to SouthernHog
Leaving an entity is not traitorous. There would have been no war if the feds didn't contest. Not traitors legally or technically.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:38 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Rebels were traitors.
Union soldiers were statists.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:39 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Not traitors by legal definition.
Right. Thanks Lincoln.
quote:
I don't care what you think about that.
Good, then I can expect to hear less whingeing from you about it in the future.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:40 pm to LSURulzSEC
quote:
wrong...but if you think they were traitors then you must admit the founding fathers were traitors too...
Already have, numerous times...
Next.
Posted on 8/20/17 at 1:40 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
No one's whining. Just correcting an inaccuracy.
eta:. Misread. Sir, I submit your very existence on this board is based on whinging
eta:. Misread. Sir, I submit your very existence on this board is based on whinging
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 1:42 pm
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