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Started By
Message
Cyber-attack: Act of War or Not?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:30 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:30 am
If a cyberattack from a foreign power causes significant economic loss here in the USA, is this an act of war?
What should be the US response to such an event?
What should be the US response to such an event?
19
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:33 am to Champagne
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:34 am to Champagne
Short answer: Yes!
quote:
WASHINGTON—The Pentagon has concluded that computer sabotage coming from another country can constitute an act of war, a finding that for the first time opens the door for the U.S. to respond using traditional military force.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:35 am to Road Tiger
quote:
Any other president, fire bomb the shite out of them.
I personally have no problem with a more liberal use of nukes on places like Iran or North Korea, though obviously the rest of the world would turn against us if we did it.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:39 am to Champagne
quote:
If a cyberattack from a foreign power causes significant economic loss here in the USA, is this an act of war?
Under the Conventions absolutely, the problem is there is no precedent.
I'm not certain N Korea did this but if state sponsored respond in kind.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:43 am to Champagne
North Korea didn't do this...Sony did. Should we attack Sony?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:47 am to Champagne
It's a "provocation". Or how about an "escalation of tensions". It demands an INTELLIGENT proportionate response. What that is in the case of North Korea, is anybody's guess.
I'm guessing a stern lecture about our "deep hope" that North Korea will eventually "walk hand-in-hand with The United States into a better tomorrow".
I'm guessing a stern lecture about our "deep hope" that North Korea will eventually "walk hand-in-hand with The United States into a better tomorrow".
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:49 am to Champagne
It is, it's an assault on one of the core ideas behind our nation...the new York daily news can ride on my suck stick. There are ideas that are bigger than just one person, they're bigger than 3,000 people.
So for all their "disrespectful to families of 9/11" bullshite, they don't even realize what attacking the WTC represented for the terrorists.
jesus Christ, everyone supports freedom, but when in a position to defend it, they always cower...I hate every spineless weasel behind this decision.
So for all their "disrespectful to families of 9/11" bullshite, they don't even realize what attacking the WTC represented for the terrorists.
jesus Christ, everyone supports freedom, but when in a position to defend it, they always cower...I hate every spineless weasel behind this decision.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 10:59 am to Champagne
Don't worry about the economic loss.
It can be much more catastrophic than that.
Chinese military hacker know as UglyGorilla hacked into a NE utility company last year. Didn't do anything except "explore". Thousands could be killed if someone did shut down a utility grid.
Also, with the Internet of Things (IoT), cyberattacks can do potentially even more damage.
Cyberwar is largely the future of war now.
It can be much more catastrophic than that.
Chinese military hacker know as UglyGorilla hacked into a NE utility company last year. Didn't do anything except "explore". Thousands could be killed if someone did shut down a utility grid.
Also, with the Internet of Things (IoT), cyberattacks can do potentially even more damage.
Cyberwar is largely the future of war now.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:00 am to Porkchop Express
Probably not, but there will be a huge scare now, and guess what happens when Americans get scared?
Here are our rights, just keep us safe
Here are our rights, just keep us safe
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:02 am to Porkchop Express
quote:
Cyberwar is largely the future of war now.
Its here and its scary.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:06 am to Champagne
quote:
If a cyberattack from a foreign power causes significant economic loss here in the USA, is this an act of war?
What should be the US response to such an event?
It should be proportional. We should not firebomb a country because they released some emails.
However if a country shut down our utility grid; I would be OK with shutting down their utility grid.
One of the bigger problems is proof. Do you know for sure who attacked you? You better be sure.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:12 am to DelU249
quote:
Probably not, but there will be a huge scare now, and guess what happens when Americans get scared? Here are our rights, just keep us safe
Unfortunately yes it is.
And for very good reasons.
I agree about not giving away our rights ever.
However the reality is we can't keep up with the hackers and Congress is doing little to try and protect our country.
Corporations don't want to share information about leaks because it would be informing competitors about breaches, and also are worried about their public reputations.
There are potential hacking events that could make 9/11 look insignificant in the grand scheme of recent American history.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:14 am to Champagne
In this case...it's a probe, to see just how much they can manipulate our policy. And a warning shot across our bow, to let us know that not only nukes can blow us to pieces.
Of course, they must know that we could offer up a monstrous cyber-response...but such would likely harm mostly their innocents. Like the Islamists...they hide behind that collateral damage and any negative publicity to be had therein. And there would be plenty for the blame-America Libs to celebrate/decry.
Between a rock and a hard place. The gloves will have to come off sooner or later, and the 'big fight' must occur. Because there is no 'Worldly' peaceful solution for responding to today's Evil...only a personal and 'Spiritual' one. Talking to Putin or North Korea would be like talking/negotiating with Al Sharpton or the aggrieved protestors up in Ferguson; their version of 'truth'/reality...is delusional.
Of course, they must know that we could offer up a monstrous cyber-response...but such would likely harm mostly their innocents. Like the Islamists...they hide behind that collateral damage and any negative publicity to be had therein. And there would be plenty for the blame-America Libs to celebrate/decry.
Between a rock and a hard place. The gloves will have to come off sooner or later, and the 'big fight' must occur. Because there is no 'Worldly' peaceful solution for responding to today's Evil...only a personal and 'Spiritual' one. Talking to Putin or North Korea would be like talking/negotiating with Al Sharpton or the aggrieved protestors up in Ferguson; their version of 'truth'/reality...is delusional.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:15 am to BigJim
quote:
However if a country shut down our utility grid; I would be OK with shutting down their utility grid.
The problem with just shutting down a utility grid is the assumption that it is just electricity.
A cyber attack on a utility grid could also be blowing up gas lines, water lines, and opening dams among other things.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:16 am to Champagne
Possibly. I feel the burden of proof would be much more complex than say Russia rolling tanks across a border. The FBI says they have evidence, but what is the evidence?
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:17 am to Champagne
if so, we committed an act of war against iran a few years ago.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 11:44 am to Hawkeye95
quote:
if so, we committed an act of war against iran a few years ago.
We've been at war (proxy version) with Iran for a while. Israel is too. And like a lot of stuff...the terminology employed has become less descriptive of reality. Kinda like "the meaning of the word is, is"....or..."you CAN keep you doctor".
One man's/woman's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Janet Napolitano realized this a few years back.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:41 pm to mizzoukills
quote:
Should we attack Sony?
I want to say "yes" but only because they stopped making great radios and stereo systems manufactured in Japan.
This post was edited on 12/20/14 at 9:07 am
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:50 pm to jamboybarry
quote:
The Pentagon has concluded that computer sabotage coming from another country can constitute an act of war, a finding that for the first time opens the door for the U.S. to respond using traditional military force.
Thanks, jamboybarry.
Looks like our DoD concludes that computer sabotage can constitute an armed attack that warranting a US response using traditional military force.
Last time I posted this thread, some computer network gurus expressed a belief that a cyberattack in the US could never "bring down the grid" or otherwise cause catastrophic economic harm.
Were they wrong?
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