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Message
re: .
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:59 am to roadGator
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:59 am to roadGator
quote:
Also...
Officer, I have a valid concealed carry permit and I have a firearm in the vehicle. For our safety, what would you like me to do next (with both hands on wheel)?
If you can't get the license and carry card out in time.
This is what I planned to do if stopped. Was not going to try to get my CC license. I carry my drivers license in my phone case, and my CC in my wallet - didn't want to have him see me reaching into too many places.
1
Posted on 10/6/17 at 10:59 am to Dale51
quote:
Does this include how people interact with LEOs?
I think we should establish guidelines for police and instruct people how they should behave in interactions with police, but I think that's mostly pissing in the wind.
It's hard to get through to people who are dumb and distrust you.
Cops can police themselves, and they work for us.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:00 am to uway
quote:
Cops can police themselves, and they work for us.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:01 am to cave canem
quote:
MrCarton, if this officer had been an US soldier in a foreign country and the dead man a civilian with the same video what would the result have been.
Varies by commanders, but it one of my guys did thst during a routine stop on the street, it wouldn't be good. Could be charged with a crime. Many were charged for stuff like this. MANY soldiers turned on their own team mates for using any reason to gun down a human.
But none of my people ever did something like this, which is apparently impossible to claim on US soil.
During a raid or pre-planned op against a suspected or known hostile target, it can be a different ROE if suicide vests are on site. But we still chase down a lot of squirters. Get that. We chased down squirters from known insurgent targets without killing them. Just let that sink in.
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 11:04 am
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:01 am to MrCarton
well we just disagree. the way his body moves he turns his head back and his body so his right arm can point back...
I don't want to die, I would have shot him.
there are higher standards I think cops should meet. it's part of the job, but i'm never going to expect them in that situation to just gamble their life on something so stupid.
now plenty of situations where the same thing happens and I don't like it. don't ask for someone to get something and then when they do assume they're pulling a weapon
I don't want to die, I would have shot him.
there are higher standards I think cops should meet. it's part of the job, but i'm never going to expect them in that situation to just gamble their life on something so stupid.
now plenty of situations where the same thing happens and I don't like it. don't ask for someone to get something and then when they do assume they're pulling a weapon
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:01 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
This is what I planned to do if stopped.
Obviously. I had it happen once. I immediately told the officer I was armed and did not move until she instructed me as to what to do.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:02 am to Bleeding purple
quote:
I'm not your son and your claims don't impress me.
Excellent.
quote:
Your ignorance, belligerence, continued personal attacks, and use of foul language and sexual depravity are impressive though.
Do you need a tissue son?
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:03 am to DelU249
Haven't watched the video. But unarmed does not me not dangerous.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:03 am to DelU249
quote:
well we just disagree. the way his body moves he turns his head back and his body so his right arm can point back...
I don't want to die, I would have shot him.
Fair enough.
quote:
now plenty of situations where the same thing happens and I don't like it. don't ask for someone to get something and then when they do assume they're pulling a weapon
Fair enough.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:03 am to MrCarton
quote:
It's also why I think cops should have the same lethal force ROE as everyone else.
This indicates to me that you were never a cop. ROE applies to military, not police. In terms of when a LEO may use lethal force there are , obviously, rules in place, and they MUST be broader than what the average citizen has. For example, in most states an officer most certainly can shoot a fleeing subject if the subject has committed a felony and they believe the subject could present a danger to the public. As a civilian, you can't do that. You can only use lethal force if you reasonably believe there is an imminent lethal threat.
Most of the time , these cases boil down to the subject did something stupid and then people just generally dislike cops anyway so if they can be blamed, why not. ANd of course, if someone can be accused of racism, that's even better.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:05 am to DelU249
quote:
Yeah you live in a world without nuance. When a cop reaches real fast or makes a sudden movement i don't get to assume he's going to extrajudicially terminate me
It is going to happen soon enough and on purpose, it will also be done in a juristiction with a favorable jury pool. It is going to be on video and the officer baited intoo a reaction that can be used to justify others action.
I don't buy into the nonsense of cops setting out to kill folks, it simply is the matter that they are not the best and brightest we have to offer by and large and this is the result. This is a generalization but hold true far too often.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:05 am to MrCarton
quote:
The reason soldiers didn't kill more civilians is this: locals will absolutely turn on you for abusing them and abusing claims to self defense. They will target and kill you. You must do everything in your power to show you aren't doing either
Which has happened and is going to happen here. Which will lead to police crackdowns, which will lead to more retaliation, more crackdowns in response, etc.
It's a downward spiral that can only be stopped by the soldiers in that case or the police in our domestic case.
That's the point and one good reason not to reflexively defend cops.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:05 am to uway
quote:
I think we should establish guidelines for police and instruct people how they should behave in interactions with police, but I think that's mostly pissing in the wind.
It's not a civilians responsibility to know how to handle police officers. That's like saying I should be responsible for telling a waiter how to take my order.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:06 am to uway
quote:
Which has happened and is going to happen here. Which will lead to police crackdowns, which will lead to more retaliation, more crackdowns in response, etc.
It's a downward spiral that can only be stopped by the soldiers in that case or the police in our domestic case.
That's the point and one good reason not to reflexively defend cops.
Yep. Wholeheartedly agree. Its sad and avoidable, but not if people refuse to admit the realities of what cops are, and what they aren't.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:08 am to MrCarton
quote:
It's not a civilians responsibility to know how to handle police officers.
Actually, for a responsible and accountable society to exist, one should have a basic understanding of how to interact with other in society including police officers. Why would that be a bad thing?
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:08 am to hawkeye007
quote:
and turned
whether you agree with it or not (as mr carton does not)
this is the part that probably cost him his life, and he wouldn't have been in this position if he didn't shove the cop and run.
such an act is so incomprehensibly stupid (unless you have something on you that means hard time or will cause someone else to kill you) that the general public is never going to come down on the side of the guy in this video
it's awful watching him get shot, hearing him cry. he's not bright and he looks fricked up.
but that cop shouldn't go to the pokey or lose his job.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:08 am to uway
quote:
Cops need to be more judicious in their decisions to engage with people and then in their handling of the situation that arises from their choice to engage. That's the only answer.
I would guarantee you too many cops have been killed because of their instructed 'judiciousness.' I am in the position of caring more about ONE GOOD COP being killed for doing his job than I am about dozens of thugs who get shot when they cause a ruckus during a legal police stop.
It doesn't take a genius to know that physically engaging a cop during an arrest can turn out badly for you. They are not there to go home in a body bag just because you want to act like an a-hole.
There are just too many ways for a person to avoid getting shot by a cop for me to worry about it - until some obviously egregious event occurs, and then I will be all over that cop's arse with a fury.
But in run of the mill interactions with suspicious thugs, I will be on the side of the cop every time = until some real evidence surfaces that they acted badly.
If I were a cop, I would give respect to the same degree that it is reciprocated. The moment some jerk started 'acting up' I would be on guard to shoot his arse at the very first indication that the MIGHT do something to threaten me.
That is why I could never be a cop. I'd be shooting this trash all the time.
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:08 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Obviously. I had it happen once. I immediately told the officer I was armed and did not move until she instructed me as to what to do.
This is what you should do.
But do you think this is how a free person, having committed no crime nor exhibited any hostile intent should be forced to act?
Posted on 10/6/17 at 11:10 am to uway
quote:
Cops created a fatal encounter for no damn good reason, like the often do.
Utah bike law when riding prior to sunrise and after sunset.
You are required to have a white headlight, red taillight or reflector, and side reflectors, all visible for at least 500 feet (41-6a-1114) any time you ride earlier than a half hour before sunrise, later than a half hour after sunset, or whenever it is otherwise difficult to make out vehicles 1000 feet away (41-6a-1603).
This post was edited on 10/6/17 at 11:12 am
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