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re: College debate enters the 'post racial' era
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:48 pm to tiderider
Posted on 4/17/14 at 1:48 pm to tiderider
quote:
i don't think it signals the country is going to shite ... it signals that debate competitions in these particular associations, NDT and CEDA, will be a free for all ... so universities and debate teams can choose to participate in this new style or form another organization that requires something other than shouting ...
Watch the movie "Idiocracy." I seriously doubt that the pendulum will swing back to logical discourse.
3
Posted on 4/17/14 at 2:18 pm to Zach
quote:
According to Joe Leeson Schatz, one of the unstated reasons for trying to set up policy-only debates is that once-dominant debate teams from colleges like Harvard and Northwestern are no longer winning the national competitions. “It is now much easier for smaller programs to be successful,” he said. “You don’t have to be from a high budget program; all you need to win is just a couple of smart students.” Schatz believes that the changes in college debate are widening the playing field and attracting more students from all backgrounds.
You have to go to a school with a "big budget [debate] program" to be able to research and form arguments using experts and other academic sources? What a crock.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 3:06 pm to Zach
quote:
Yes. It should be dismissed out of hand. There is a topic. If you don't want to debate the topic go take up soccer. But don't change the topic to something that you want to talk about.
But that is why it is debate and not soccer. In sports, the rules are rules. In debate you get to debate anything including the rules. If the other team doesn't like it, they should be able to put up a good argument on why we should stick to the rules.
In law, a lot of the arguments are not about the substance of the case (guilt or innocence; who's at fault, etc) but also the rules and procedures. This is just preparing students for that part of life.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 3:49 pm to Zach
quote:
Indeed, to prevail using the new approach, students don’t necessarily have to develop high-level research skills or marshal evidence from published scholarship. They also might not need to have the intellectual acuity required for arguing both sides of a resolution. These skills—together with a non-confrontational presentation style—are considered crucial for success in fields like law and business.
This is the most frustrated part. Imagine you put in hours upon hours of work developing a logical, well thought out argument backed up with legitimate evidence, only to be blindsided by some people who want to rant about race. Then you LOSE because you prepared for the actual topic while the other team race baited their way to a victory with poetically cloaked diatribes.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 3:55 pm to DosManos
quote:
If I wrote my economics term paper on Native American pottery, I think I would have failed.
... Yes, but if you were Native American, you would've been given an A
Posted on 4/17/14 at 5:25 pm to ManBearTiger
Slave Ships
Slave Labor
Forced Rape
3/5th Compromise
Less than human attitude by Whites
Segregation
Jim Crowe Laws
You can't ride this bus
You can't drink from this fountain
You can't eat here
We're going to hang you boy
Switch roles and puts whites through that over the last 400 years and I bet we would be in the same spot as African American's are today.
Slave Labor
Forced Rape
3/5th Compromise
Less than human attitude by Whites
Segregation
Jim Crowe Laws
You can't ride this bus
You can't drink from this fountain
You can't eat here
We're going to hang you boy
Switch roles and puts whites through that over the last 400 years and I bet we would be in the same spot as African American's are today.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 5:32 pm to Zach
quote:
“frick the time!” he yelled. His partner Campbell, who won the top speaker award at the National Debate Tournament two weeks later, had been unfairly targeted by the police at the debate venue just days before, and cited this personal trauma as evidence for his case against the government’s treatment of poor African-Americans.
This year wasn't the first time this had happened. In the 2013 championship, two men from Emporia State University, Ryan Walsh and Elijah Smith, employed a similar style and became the first African-Americans to win two national debate tournaments.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 5:34 pm to Zach
quote:
Does Traditional College Debate Reinforce White Privilege?
game on
Posted on 4/17/14 at 5:42 pm to MFn GIMP
quote:
You have to go to a school with a "big budget [debate] program" to be able to research and form arguments using experts and other academic sources? What a crock.
...
quote:
“Arguments don’t necessarily have to be backed up by professors or written papers. They can come from lived experience.”
...
quote:
“For them to tell us that we can’t bring our personal experience, it would literally be impossible. Not just for black people—it is true of everyone. We are always biased by who we are in any argument.”
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 5:44 pm to BigJim
quote:
In debate you get to debate anything including the rules. If the other team doesn't like it, they should be able to put up a good argument on why we should stick to the rules.
if the debate is about the rules, then that would work
if the debate is not about the rules, then that should be laughed off the stage and awarded 0 points
quote:
In law, a lot of the arguments are not about the substance of the case (guilt or innocence; who's at fault, etc) but also the rules and procedures
specific hearings/motions on procedural issues exist. hell that's most of appellate work. there are TONS of rules involved
This post was edited on 4/17/14 at 5:45 pm
Posted on 4/17/14 at 5:45 pm to beebefootballfan
quote:
Switch roles and puts whites through that over the last 400 years and I bet we would be in the same spot as African American's are today.
lol. No. Persons of European ancestry don't blame their laziness/problems on shite that happened decades or centuries ago.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 6:26 pm to BigJim
quote:
But that is why it is debate and not soccer. In sports, the rules are rules. In debate you get to debate anything including the rules. If the other team doesn't like it, they should be able to put up a good argument on why we should stick to the rules.
That's idiotic. I make the argument that instead of 10 minutes for each of us to present our evidence. I get 10 minutes and You get 5 seconds to refute it. Before you could argue that my rule change is unreasonable your 5 seconds is up.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 6:49 pm to Zach
Can we just divide up this country already? Its clear that diversity is only enforceable by an increasingly oppressive govt.
We have been dismantling all of our standards in the quest for equal outcomes for far too long. I honestly have developed genuine hatred for liberals at this point, because they are bent on destroying every last bit of excellence and civilization in this country.
Had previous generations not gifted us with an abundance of infrastructure and wealth, we would already be done.
We have been dismantling all of our standards in the quest for equal outcomes for far too long. I honestly have developed genuine hatred for liberals at this point, because they are bent on destroying every last bit of excellence and civilization in this country.
Had previous generations not gifted us with an abundance of infrastructure and wealth, we would already be done.
Posted on 4/17/14 at 6:51 pm to beebefootballfan
You're so tolerant. That's why you're getting the hell out of Memphis and moving to a whiter area ASAP, right?
Posted on 4/17/14 at 8:06 pm to Zach
quote:
Over four hours, the two teams engaged in a heated discussion of concepts like “**** authenticity” and performed hip-hop and spoken-word poetry in the traditional timed format. At one point during Lee’s rebuttal, the clock ran out but he refused to yield the floor. “frick the time!” he yelled.
Wow.
Just wow.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 5:44 am to Zach
quote:
In the 2013 championship, two men from Emporia State University, Ryan Walsh and Elijah Smith, employed a similar style and became the first African-Americans to win two national debate tournaments. Many of their arguments, based on personal memoir and rap music, completely ignored the stated resolution, and instead asserted that the framework of collegiate debate has historically privileged straight, white, middle-class students.
Really?
Posted on 4/18/14 at 5:46 am to EST
quote:
asserted that the framework of collegiate debate has historically privileged straight, white, middle-class students.
I propose that the framework of the NBA favors African Americans who are better jumpers and more athletic than white males.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 5:46 am to beebefootballfan
quote:
Switch roles and puts whites through that over the last 400 years
Blacks are 400 years old? Wow.
These debates include students who personally endured all of those things on your list? Wow.
Posted on 4/18/14 at 5:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
specific hearings/motions on procedural issues exist. hell that's most of appellate work. there are TONS of rules involved
Wait until people start rapping their legal defense or lawyers tell judges to "frick the law".
Posted on 4/18/14 at 5:51 am to wmr
quote:
I honestly have developed genuine hatred for liberals at this point, because they are bent on destroying every last bit of excellence and civilization in this country.
So true. Our society is in decline because of them.
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