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Message
1
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:34 pm to Revelator
Sure. Why not?
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:37 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I think the more educational approach would be for you to explain why you believe he could.
Because Obama has set the precedent that the executive branch can simply make new laws if he thinks congress is dragging their feet or if he simply disagrees with their bills. Why shouldn't a future president do the same?
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:52 pm to Revelator
quote:
Because Obama has set the precedent that the executive branch can simply make new laws if he thinks congress is dragging their feet or if he simply disagrees with their bills.
Ah, well here is the problem. You have a misunderstanding of what exactly Obama did.
Now first, let me preface this by saying I do not agree with Obama on much of anything and think he went about this in a very destructive and divisive manner. I don't want to be accused of being a dirty liberal for my objectivity.
Now having said that, Obama did not "make a new law". He would probably love for the public, especially Hispanics, to believe that is what he is doing. However all he is doing is using his executive powers to augment the enforcement of existing laws. He is choosing NOT to seek out and prosecute illegals who meet certain criteria. The idea that he introduced new laws is simply incorrect. As President he has prosecutorial discretion over the justice department, as every president before him has.
Additionally, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan and GWB all exercised their executive powers with regards to immigration law. Obama simply has done so more extensively, with his decision effecting a larger number of people.
quote:
Why shouldn't a future president do the same?
Because presidents do not have the authority to do what you suggested in the OP, and despite what you may or may not think such an attempt by a president from either party would result in an immediate congressional hearing and most likely articles of impeachment, along with a good scolding from the SC.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 9:54 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:53 pm to LSUnation78
quote:
A better comparison would be to say the next president could just choose not to prosecute marijuana offenders. Its a law on the books, but the president would use his 'discretion' to not enforce.
Obama's EO goes a little further than that, but yes you are essentially correct.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:05 pm to Revelator
Obama claims to be a Constitutional Lawyer and he was telling everyone just a few years ago that he didn't have executive powers to do what he did last night. Now, suddenly he says he does have the power. Why didn't he know this a few years back as a Constitutional Lawyer? Or perhaps he knows he still doesn't have the authority, but doesn't give a frick?!
When one has a party of cowards as opposition, why bother about laws?
When one has a party of cowards as opposition, why bother about laws?
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:17 pm to Revelator
quote:
he was telling everyone just a few years ago that he didn't have executive powers to do what he did last night
Based on past precedent and executive powers granted to the president, it seems Obama was mistaken. Ultimately this could be decided in federal court, but as of now that's really all there is too it. Obama has the power to do something he did not think he did.
In a way, it paints him as somewhat ignorant of his powers as president. Or perhaps he wanted to do something far more sweeping that he didn't have the authority to do, so he did the most he could.
quote:
Why didn't he know this a few years back as a Constitutional Lawyer?
Why are otherwise intelligent republican politicians, most with law degrees themselves, incorrectly saying Obama is making up new laws?
quote:
Or perhaps he knows he still doesn't have the authority, but doesn't give a frick?!
But he does have the authority, just like Bush and Reagan and Eisenhower had authority.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:24 pm to Roger Klarvin
The problem I see isn't in not enforcing immigration/deportation laws but the granting of work visas. That goes beyond simply not deporting people under existing law but granting them legal status by which they couldn't be deported.. That's a pretty big difference to me.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:27 pm to TROLA
I'm not positive, but I believe the president has the authority to grant worker status as he sees fit.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:29 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
But he does have the authority, just like Bush and Reagan and Eisenhower had authority.
There is a very good article posted by SEC Crazy that explains in details why his actions are different than his predecessors. But with most things legal, they are written so that a lawyer can argue both sides of an issue in almost every situation. It keeps lawyers in business.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:31 pm to Revelator
Sure, the sky's the limit at this point.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:34 pm to Revelator
quote:
There is a very good article posted by SEC Crazy that explains in details why his actions are different than his predecessors.
The only real difference is the number of people his actions effect. There really aren't legal differences, at least not ones that have ever been enumerated by any court. If it comes to that, we'll see.
And SEC Crazy has never posted anything good, ever. He makes you look like the best poster here by comparison
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:37 pm to Roger Klarvin
The law is very flexible in regards to work visas as he's already done this with dreamer children. I just see this as a flawed topic all together. The centralized power we have allowed the executive branch to wield has got to be changed. You could ask a 100 different lawyers, historians and lawmakers and get a different answer as to whether what he's done is legal. That level of muddled clarity is disturbing.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:39 pm to Revelator
The President can sign an EO that nobody be prosecuted for not signing up for the ACA. Nobody pays fines for breaking law.
The President can sign a EO for pardons and not enforcing laws. There are so many possibilities. Thank you Obama for opening the pandora box.
The President can sign a EO for pardons and not enforcing laws. There are so many possibilities. Thank you Obama for opening the pandora box.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:42 pm to TOKEN
Obama told people before that it would be much easier to govern if he was a monarch and didn't have to deal with congress. I believe he truly feels this way in his heart and since he is a lame duck, he is simply playing out his fascination with being a king knowing no one will stop him. And I think that is the simple explanation for his actions.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:48 pm to Revelator
quote:
Obama told people before that it would be much easier to govern if he was a monarch and didn't have to deal with congress.
He's an arrogant idealist, why does this surprise you?
Many people believe they know better than everyone else, we just happen to have one serving as our president at the moment. He isn't the first to serve in that capacity and he wont be the last. FDR, LBJ and Nixon all had varying degrees of the "I know best, kneel before me" attitude.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:51 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
He's an arrogant idealist, why does this surprise you?
I'm not surprised that he is an arrogant idealist. What surprises me is that there are so many willing to facilitate his madness.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:08 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
However all he is doing is using his executive powers to augment the enforcement of existing laws. He is choosing NOT to seek out and prosecute illegals who meet certain criteria
Since when does the President have the constitutional power to pick and choose which laws he wants to enforce?
Article 2 Section 3 of the Constitution states
"he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed,"
Nowhere does it say that the President can ignore the law and do whatever the hell he wants.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 11:12 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:10 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Many people believe they know better than everyone else, we just happen to have one serving as our president at the moment. He isn't the first to serve in that capacity and he wont be the last. FDR, LBJ and Nixon all had varying degrees of the "I know best, kneel before me" attitude.
So the fact that Obama isn't the only president to treat the Presidency like a monarchy excuses his actions? I don't think you will find many on this board supporting the unitary executive actions of FDR, LBJ, or Nixon.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:11 pm to MFn GIMP
quote:
Since when does the President have the constitutional power to pick and choose which laws he wants to enforce?
Since 1870
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