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re: Can pure Socialism work without magic technology?
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:20 am to BamaAtl
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:20 am to BamaAtl
quote:
With capitalism, nothing gets done. Your work is given to enrich robber barons, so you never see the fruits of your labor.
With socialism, you know that you have some minimum standard of care that you're working toward - so it can be beneficial.
(see how easy it is to make stupid arguments like the one you just tried?)
Mic drop!
0
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:24 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
We're defining away the debate then.
The debate (see the thread title) is that "pure Socialism" can't work without magic technology.
Pure capitalism cannot, either.
You up to speed now?
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:28 am to skrayper
pure socialism, much like pure capitalism, would never work
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:29 am to Ace Midnight
Those programs would have never got done without the government though. They take too much money and time to create without the government.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:34 am to Hooligan's Ghost
No way it works even in small groups of volunteers.
Read the Book of Acts just for the historical aspect. A small group of converts tried living in a single house, pooling all resources, and they quickly dispersed when some took more than "their share" while producing less.
Jamestown and other Colonial attempts in early N.America also show socialism won't work. Entire colonies disappeared or suffered tremendously due to attempted socialism.
Despite what lib/prog/mental rejects depict on paper, human beings act on their own self interest when presented any choices (i.e.: take more than a "single share"). It's hardwired into us. Just look at anyone with excess weight, the entire human genome is designed to seek out and store excess.
Read the Book of Acts just for the historical aspect. A small group of converts tried living in a single house, pooling all resources, and they quickly dispersed when some took more than "their share" while producing less.
Jamestown and other Colonial attempts in early N.America also show socialism won't work. Entire colonies disappeared or suffered tremendously due to attempted socialism.
Despite what lib/prog/mental rejects depict on paper, human beings act on their own self interest when presented any choices (i.e.: take more than a "single share"). It's hardwired into us. Just look at anyone with excess weight, the entire human genome is designed to seek out and store excess.
This post was edited on 4/24/17 at 10:41 am
Posted on 4/24/17 at 10:42 am to Machine
quote:
much like pure capitalism, would never work
What would pure capitalism look like in your opinion?
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:39 am to zatetic
quote:
Those programs would have never got done without the government though. They take too much money and time to create without the government.
No question - those 2 are the Gold Standard for government/private partnership, and what that can accomplish.
But the United States doesn't even reach for the Moon if it doesn't have the infrastructure that capitalism built. The aerospace industry benefitted greatly from government contracts for WWII, but no amount of socialism could get to the Moon. The Soviets were largely piggybacking (stealing) off our work for both programs. Yes they got to space first, but that was because they didn't really value individual human life the way we did.
After that, it was all us. The only reason we didn't land on Mars in the late 70s or early 80s is that the attention span of the average American is measured in nanoseconds. No more political will. Vietnam taught us that - America can't be beaten, but attack the political will or public perception and we'll quit.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:41 am to BamaAtl
quote:
You up to speed now?
Since "pure Socialism" or "pure Capitalism" cannot really exist, then this is academic navel gazing, right?
(Yeah, buddy, I'm pretty up to speed.)
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:48 am to BamaAtl
quote:
With capitalism, nothing gets done. Your work is given to enrich robber barons, so you never see the fruits of your labor.
With socialism, you know that you have some minimum standard of care that you're working toward - so it can be beneficial.
(see how easy it is to make stupid arguments like the one you just tried?)
The other poster provided two statements that are true, it became a stupid argument when you made a rebuttal with two totally false statements.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:51 am to BamaAtl
That is reallllllly stupid. I am doing alright and I am not a "robber baron".
Just gibberish
Just gibberish
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:58 am to skrayper
Could socialism work? Sure, if you removed humans from the equation. But you can't so basic greed will always prevent any pure economic system from working.
I mean think about that logically. capitalism would work too if humans weren't greedy. If a business owner said "no I don't need to make $1M a year , I'm fine with making a half million dollars a year and paying my employees more than fairly" capitalism would be paradise.
Or, if the people on top weren't greedy, communism could work. I mean if everyone even at the lowest levels had all of their needs and a good portion of their wants provided for, they wouldn't care what the people in charge had, but greed always means that those in charge take so much that the lowest can't be fairly provided for.
I mean think about that logically. capitalism would work too if humans weren't greedy. If a business owner said "no I don't need to make $1M a year , I'm fine with making a half million dollars a year and paying my employees more than fairly" capitalism would be paradise.
Or, if the people on top weren't greedy, communism could work. I mean if everyone even at the lowest levels had all of their needs and a good portion of their wants provided for, they wouldn't care what the people in charge had, but greed always means that those in charge take so much that the lowest can't be fairly provided for.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 11:58 am to Iosh
quote:
@DPRK_News agrees
They don't have a liberal/secular orthodoxy
Posted on 4/24/17 at 12:02 pm to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
Could socialism work? Sure, if you removed humans from the equation. But you can't so basic greed will always prevent any pure economic system from working.
There is room for greed in a homogenous and intelligent socialist model. There is also room for a certain amount of slackers.
When you bring in a group of outsiders (the Muslims in Sweden) they will upset the apple cart very rapidly as they contribute very little and take very much. Sweden became untenable very quickly.
IMO Japan has the best model (using "socialist" in regards to American nomenclature) where the state will take care of you from cradle to grave if you are disabled, retarded, etc. and born a citizen. They will divert an entire JR train to pick you up on a stop that would otherwise have been closed in order to help you out. Literally no other first world country can do that.
The handicapped kid that the JR train will divert and have a custom entry ramp for and a dedicated JR Railways employee on that train for (to help that one gov't subsidized passenger) would not be able to receive this accommodation if Japan would open their borders to non-assimilating Muslim refugees who would soak up Japan's ability to "bend" in this manner.
This post was edited on 4/24/17 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 4/24/17 at 12:30 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Japan
Most homeless in Japan clean up the streets. It's like an entirely alien culture to us.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 1:54 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
With capitalism, nothing gets done
lulz.
Posted on 4/24/17 at 2:03 pm to MrCarton
With socialism Venezuela gets done
That kind of forgot all their praise of chavez
That kind of forgot all their praise of chavez
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