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Message
Can A Good Air Force Fighter Be Built Today For $50M?
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:26 am
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:26 am
I was perusing some military articles…
F35A cost per plane continues to come down to around $85M. The new F15EX is ballooning to over $100M a plane, which is surprising for an updated 1970s fourth generation jet. The new B21 bomber is estimated to be around $500M per plane. The next generation fighter, the successor to the F22, is forecast to be $200-300M per plane and the USAF is planning to purchase a limit of 200 due to cost.
So a recurrent question in a lot of these discussions is how will the USAF get the numbers of fighters it needs for war with Russia and China? They keep referencing a serious numbers issue. Drones are definitely part of the answer but not THE answer, apparently. Non stealthy, fourth generation aircraft upgrades were thought to be part of the equation but Boeing is blowing that out of the water with their updated F15EX costing more than a F35A.
So…
Is it possible to build an effective, not superior but capable, fighter jet for low cost (say $50M) that would allow it to be produced in large numbers?
Some general said the USAF needs to find its F16 for today like it did in the 1970s.
F35A cost per plane continues to come down to around $85M. The new F15EX is ballooning to over $100M a plane, which is surprising for an updated 1970s fourth generation jet. The new B21 bomber is estimated to be around $500M per plane. The next generation fighter, the successor to the F22, is forecast to be $200-300M per plane and the USAF is planning to purchase a limit of 200 due to cost.
So a recurrent question in a lot of these discussions is how will the USAF get the numbers of fighters it needs for war with Russia and China? They keep referencing a serious numbers issue. Drones are definitely part of the answer but not THE answer, apparently. Non stealthy, fourth generation aircraft upgrades were thought to be part of the equation but Boeing is blowing that out of the water with their updated F15EX costing more than a F35A.
So…
Is it possible to build an effective, not superior but capable, fighter jet for low cost (say $50M) that would allow it to be produced in large numbers?
Some general said the USAF needs to find its F16 for today like it did in the 1970s.
22
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:27 am to LuckyTiger
$50 mil ? Lol ...
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:28 am to LuckyTiger
Not with all kick-backs...
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:29 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
how will the USAF get the numbers of fighters it needs for war with Russia and China
a. This isn't likely of a scenario
b. How do THEY get the numbers needed to fight us? Their fighter tech is severely behind our tech.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:30 am to LuckyTiger
There are already gen 6 prototypes, I imagine the cost on those will be unreal.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:31 am to LuckyTiger
quote:
how will the USAF get the numbers of fighters it needs for war with Russia and China?
They can start by not funding DIE and LG4KTVQ crap.
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 11:31 am
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:33 am to SantaFe
We’re still manufacturing F16s in South Carolina for around $60-70M but the USAF has no purchase plans, all for export.
There’s ongoing exploration by the DoD of upgrading the new trainer jet by Boeing for the USAF, which costs around $25M, into an actual fighter.
The new T7 Redhawk:
There’s ongoing exploration by the DoD of upgrading the new trainer jet by Boeing for the USAF, which costs around $25M, into an actual fighter.
The new T7 Redhawk:
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:34 am to LuckyTiger
The USD is being debased at such an accelerating rate $200 million per fighter/bomber is going to seem cheap in 2-3 years. 
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:35 am to LuckyTiger
They are looking to have a two tier inventory. One of high end and low end cost. Air domination of course for the high end and a cheaper option for ground and close support. They know the F-35 is a failure due to cost. The last article I read had them looking at conversions for the jet trainer and of course the F-18 among others. They know its a cost problem and are working on cheaper options.
You will also see soon a fleet of UAV mother ships carrying smaller UAV jets. A carrier in the air. It will have multiple roles. Its coming sooner than later.
The Loyal Wingman program
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You will also see soon a fleet of UAV mother ships carrying smaller UAV jets. A carrier in the air. It will have multiple roles. Its coming sooner than later.
The Loyal Wingman program
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 11:40 am
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:35 am to LuckyTiger
Yep, the MIC's keep forcing wars to sell existing technology. When does it end?
Why not just use the ROD FROM GOD? It could end conflicts quickly which is what we, the citizens, really want.
The rod collides with the target 11 times faster than a bullet and a force significantly greater than a nuclear warhead.
None of the fallout, all of the fun.
Why not just use the ROD FROM GOD? It could end conflicts quickly which is what we, the citizens, really want.
The rod collides with the target 11 times faster than a bullet and a force significantly greater than a nuclear warhead.
None of the fallout, all of the fun.
This post was edited on 4/21/24 at 2:05 pm
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:35 am to LuckyTiger
How the hell are you going to do that and ensure that politicians, bureaucrats, lobbyists and defense contractors also get their second and third homes in Palm Springs, Miami and Vail?
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
a. This isn't likely of a scenario
But they’re planning for it, nonetheless, because they’re the military.
quote:
b. How do THEY get the numbers needed to fight us? Their fighter tech is severely behind our tech.
I don’t know, I’m just focusing on what our leaders are saying they’re doing here.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:41 am to LuckyTiger
quote:We can't. We already have WWII level debt to GDP numbers. Without a war. We cannot afford to fight another war on that scale.
how will the USAF get the numbers of fighters it needs for war with Russia and China?
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:48 am to goatmilker
quote:
You will also see soon a fleet of UAV mother ships carrying smaller UAV jets
Yeah, Gen 6 fighters are a manned craft commanding several unmanned craft.
Think I read where half will be manned, half will be automated.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:49 am to LuckyTiger
quote:Well, what do you want it to do exactly?
Can A Good Air Force Fighter Be Built Today For $50M?
Look. The F35 probably costs more than even it should.
That said, it's not even really a "fighter". The generation of "fighter" jets is dead. Dogfights are a thing of the past. In a dogfight, the F16 gives the F35 a rash of shite. Alas, in an actual war, the F16 would be blown out of the sky before it even knew the F35 was there.
The same goes for a great many of international "competitors".
We definitely could build cheaper very good planes. But, we also would lose more of them in actual combat so, we would HAVE to build more.
I don't know what the exact trade off is really. But, that's what we're faced with.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:53 am to LuckyTiger
Just slap a Ukrainian flag on it and they can get as many as they want. 
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:54 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Yeah, Gen 6 fighters are a manned craft commanding several unmanned craft.
Think I read where half will be manned, half will be automated.
Your correct. Another role for the Old Buff!
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:55 am to Wishing Well
quote:
That said, it's not even really a "fighter". The generation of "fighter" jets is dead. Dogfights are a thing of the past. In a dogfight, the F16 gives the F35 a rash of shite. Alas, in an actual war, the F16 would be blown out of the sky before it even knew the F35 was there.
The same goes for a great many of international "competitors".
We definitely could build cheaper very good planes. But, we also would lose more of them in actual combat so, we would HAVE to build more.
Exactly.
I actually went down this rabbit hole last month, and I still get suggested videos about the new gen of Russian and Chinese fighters. They are what you'd expect. Russia is selling its plane as being really really fast in a straight line. China tried to rip off the US deisgn and failed.
I think I read Russia is trying to build a fleet of budget-type planes like OP is talking about, which may work in conflicts like Ukraine...but it's basically lighting money on fire in a conflict against the US. Even our old F22 is seen as more likely to win in combat against Russia's latest offering.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:56 am to LuckyTiger
The Russo Ukrainian war has been eye opening to how easily expensive tech can be neutralized with low level quadcopter drones.
Posted on 4/21/24 at 11:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:It's basically like Mike Tyson being confronted with a man who has a 300 inch reach and no boxing ring.
I think I read Russia is trying to build a fleet of budget-type planes like OP is talking about, which may work in conflicts like Ukraine...but it's basically lighting money on fire in a conflict against the US. Even our old F22 is seen as more likely to win in combat against Russia's latest offering.
You're good Mike. And if he lets you get close, you might be a problem. But that fricker is just gonna hit you from 20 feet away over and over again! LOL
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