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Started By
Message
Are you willing to go nuclear?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:37 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:37 am
This is the question we should all be asking ourselves, folks.
I'm personally not the biggest fan of the bill but I realize why it is the way it is. I assumed that Ryan would have come out the gate swinging with a hardline conservative plan that mirrored almost exactly the Price plans of yesteryear. Such a strategy would be assaulted on multiple fronts, but would moderate closer to something akin to what we see now. He took a different approach.
The single biggest bottleneck right now is the filibuster. It disallows the conservatives in the House from being able to do everything they want. This is the reason that, even though substantially every other tax (including capital gains and other bullshite) is being wiped away, they are only delaying the Cadillac Tax. The premise in that they can't pass a law that adds to the deficit in 10 years via Budget Reconciliation, which is the only method at their disposal right now to get anything done with just 51 votes.
There are other components that can't simply be wiped away with reconciliation, such as pre-existing conditions, but in general, this is why you see what you are seeing. Meanwhile, you have the likes of Cory Garner, alleged conservatives in the Senate, who ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare, saying they don't want to impact Medicaid.
Guys like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz make their living off of grandstanding in meaningless parliamentary bullshite in Congress, or in Fox News interviews. The stuff they say isn't based on anything resembling reality, but the base loves it.
The ultimate truth is that the biggest impediment to doing a true repeal and replace in one fell swoop in 2017 would be to remove the rules surrounding the filibuster.
The question is, do you want to go nuclear?
I'm personally not the biggest fan of the bill but I realize why it is the way it is. I assumed that Ryan would have come out the gate swinging with a hardline conservative plan that mirrored almost exactly the Price plans of yesteryear. Such a strategy would be assaulted on multiple fronts, but would moderate closer to something akin to what we see now. He took a different approach.
The single biggest bottleneck right now is the filibuster. It disallows the conservatives in the House from being able to do everything they want. This is the reason that, even though substantially every other tax (including capital gains and other bullshite) is being wiped away, they are only delaying the Cadillac Tax. The premise in that they can't pass a law that adds to the deficit in 10 years via Budget Reconciliation, which is the only method at their disposal right now to get anything done with just 51 votes.
There are other components that can't simply be wiped away with reconciliation, such as pre-existing conditions, but in general, this is why you see what you are seeing. Meanwhile, you have the likes of Cory Garner, alleged conservatives in the Senate, who ran on repealing and replacing Obamacare, saying they don't want to impact Medicaid.
Guys like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz make their living off of grandstanding in meaningless parliamentary bullshite in Congress, or in Fox News interviews. The stuff they say isn't based on anything resembling reality, but the base loves it.
The ultimate truth is that the biggest impediment to doing a true repeal and replace in one fell swoop in 2017 would be to remove the rules surrounding the filibuster.
The question is, do you want to go nuclear?
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 11:44 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:40 am to Lou Pai
I already did go nuclear - I voted to MAGA.
Ending the filibuster to end Obamacare (something they passed with a procedural trick to avoid filibuster)? Absolutely. Now, I'd prefer they just get around it the same way the Dems got around it to pass it - but, at a certain point if it only works one way, get rid of it altogether.
Ending the filibuster to end Obamacare (something they passed with a procedural trick to avoid filibuster)? Absolutely. Now, I'd prefer they just get around it the same way the Dems got around it to pass it - but, at a certain point if it only works one way, get rid of it altogether.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:42 am to Ace Midnight
What if, in a dystopian world in 8 years, the Democrats have the presidency and both chambers but a simple majority in the Senate? They would surely go for Socialized Medicine. Are you willing to run that risk?
This post was edited on 3/8/17 at 11:42 am
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:42 am to Lou Pai
Since politics is no longer represented in the way it was established and intended, I don't see any other recourse to take.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:43 am to Lou Pai
Like nuking Washington DC to clean out the swamp?
All depends on the prevailing winds at the time and which direction they would carry any fallout.
All depends on the prevailing winds at the time and which direction they would carry any fallout.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:44 am to Lou Pai
You could have saved everyone a lot of time by just saying "I love the swamp".
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:45 am to Lou Pai
I would not be willing to go nuclear with the current bill. I really, really do not like the whole "well there is a phase two and a phase three coming" statements. Roll all three phases into one bill and go nuclear with that. I would be on board with that plan.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:45 am to Lou Pai
If they go nuclear it shouldn't be for this piece of shite
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:45 am to TigerFanatic99
No, I'm saying going nuclear with your ideal, perfect bill.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:46 am to AUbused
quote:
You could have saved everyone a lot of time by just saying "I love the swamp".
How much time did it take to to read that? 30 seconds?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:47 am to Lou Pai
The Senate math is a problem even if you go nuclear. What bill would get both Rand/Lee/Cruz and Capito/Murkowski/Collins on board?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:48 am to Lou Pai
Yes. Harry Reid those bastards.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:50 am to Lou Pai
quote:
They would surely go for Socialized Medicine. Are you willing to run that risk?
They did it already with Obamacare. I'm with you - I'd love to live in a perfect world. Hell, I'd love for them to take the filibuster off - just for this purpose - then put it back on to show how awesome they are.
But, they won't.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:51 am to AUbused
It's a crap bill. Dems don't like it and it's losing Rep support as well. Ryan has more work to do.
The battle cry for 7 years has been repeal/replace. Can't just repeal it. We need to replace it with a good bill. It will get passed no matter what it is because of the numbers in House but I'd rather a quality ACA.
The battle cry for 7 years has been repeal/replace. Can't just repeal it. We need to replace it with a good bill. It will get passed no matter what it is because of the numbers in House but I'd rather a quality ACA.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:51 am to Lou Pai
The fact is the majority of Americans don't want a full repeal. They like many of the attributes of ACA. I don't like many of the things in TrumpCare, but I understand the pubs are in control and this looks to be a decent compromise I.e no one "wins"...both sides feel they are giving up something. I'd call that acceptable.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:55 am to Lou Pai
quote:
Are you willing to run that risk?
You run risks to obtain rewards. There is no reward in sight, yet.
Ryancare is not worth the risk.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:56 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Since politics is no longer represented in the way it was established and intended, I don't see any other recourse to take.
This is actually false.
The rules of the Senate and the house are only rules.
They are not constitutional requirements.
Going "nuclear" is the newest buzzword but it is perfectly acceptable to pass legislation and do all the work of the senate or house with simple majorities.
Posted on 3/8/17 at 11:58 am to MrLarson
quote:
Ryancare is not worth the risk.
Agree 100%
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:01 pm to Lou Pai
quote:they would regardless of the current (at that moment) system, imo.
What if, in a dystopian world in 8 years, the Democrats have the presidency and both chambers but a simple majority in the Senate? They would surely go for Socialized Medicine. Are you willing to run that risk?
Posted on 3/8/17 at 12:18 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
Dang I thought this thread was going to be about nuking the Middle East or North Korea - I'm disappoint
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