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re: Are you happy your tax dollar subsidize the Saints and the NFL??

Posted on 9/12/17 at 11:36 am to
Posted by CapperVin
Member since Apr 2013
10552 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 11:36 am to
Why yes I am!
Posted by Snipe
Member since Nov 2015
11005 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 12:16 pm to
quote:

I think New Orleans folks would sell their very soul to the devil to keep the Saints.


They already did that to get the Super Bowl win in 2009/10

the devil owns them and that city..

Just look at the state of that place these days..
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14516 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 12:21 pm to
quote:

The Saints are a net positive from a tax standpoint


Not sure about that one. At least one that can be quantified easily.

quote:

contribute a very real intangible value as well.


Agree. Quick name a major US city without a football team?



It can be done, but it takes a few beats. That is definitely worth something.

The issue is, on a cost benefit analysis, are tangible tax dollars worth an intangible (but real imho) benefit?

Posted by REG861
Ocelot, Iowa
Member since Oct 2011
36444 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 12:22 pm to
yes, next question
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

by I B Freeman

What's the total dollar amount Benson receives?

I don't know.

But. I do know that whatever that amount is, you can subtract the total tax revenue received from Saints players immediately.

Obviously, there are other amounts too but the player one is easy
Posted by navy
Parts Unknown, LA
Member since Sep 2010
29076 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 12:56 pm to
Based on last night and pretty much forever ... if the Federal Government is somehow involved with the New Orleans Saints ... then that would explain a lot.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

But, before that happens, can we agree that if the impact was net neutral, it would be a good investment because of the increased intangible value it brings to the city and state?




You want me to assume the Saints could not be here without subsidies?
Posted by ChatRabbit77
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2013
5861 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:03 pm to
I don't like subsidies for anyone.
Posted by goofball
Member since Mar 2015
16898 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

Are you happy your tax dollar subsidize the Saints and the NFL??


No. But New Orleans can't support an NFL team without robbing the rest of the state's tax dollars.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:05 pm to
Remember the players only pay state income taxes on the pay they receive on games played in Louisiana.

Again you people assume that the Saints could not and would not be profitable without the subsidies which I say is BS.
Posted by N.O. via West-Cal
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
7179 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:07 pm to
"You want me to assume the Saints could not be here without subsidies?"

I don't like subsidies, either, but yes, that is probably the assumption you should make.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:09 pm to
quote:

Remember the players only pay state income taxes on the pay they receive on games played in Louisiana

Do u have the Benson number or not

quote:


Again you people assume that the Saints could not and would not be profitable without the subsidies which I say is BS. 

I've literally never spoken I the subject prior to now

Hence. I asked for relevant info.

Do you have it?
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
26939 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:11 pm to
No, but I'm also not happy with it subsidizing sports at McNeese, Nicholls, ULM, etc.

I'm not happy with the majority of government spending. At least with the Saints I get a little enjoyment.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:12 pm to
Since the NFL enjoys a special federal exemption from the Sherman Anti Trust Act the US Congress should protect these local governments from themselves and out law the use of taxpayer financed subsidies and stadiums.

It is crazy to watch the cities compete with each other in terms of how much taxes they can give these billionaire owners.

How the NFL Fleeces Taxpayers

Cut out the subsidies and player salaries will plummet but will still be MUCH higher than what most players could earn outside of football so the supply of players would not shrink.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:14 pm to
See the previous link about the new Benson deal. It is around $23.5 million annually.

Could be considered much more since the State hid the actually payments in a lucrative deal to rent space from Benson at above market rates for state offices. Even financed the buildings for Benson to lease to the state I believe.

quote:

For 2009-2012, the final three years of the Saints' previous contract, the inducement payment was set at $23.5 million. Meaning not only did Benson get to keep virtually all the revenue generated by his team's home games, the state had to cut a fat check for the privilege of hosting him.

The arrangement had become an embarrassment to both sides.

Thornton, serving as the agent of the Louisiana Stadium and Exposition District (LSED), which owns the stadium and the arena on behalf of the public, was at the center of the negotiations on a new deal. Everyone had an incentive to deal, he said.


"The Saints didn't want the inducements," he said. "It was bad for them. It was bad for us. They didn't like taking it, and we didn't like giving it to them."

The new deal, good for 15 years, did away with the inducement payments. That saved the state millions in annual out-of-pocket expenses.


But that's not to say that Benson took a loss. On the contrary, it's likely he will end up making even more money than he did before.

Rather than hand Benson $23.5 million every year, the state agreed to make a one-time $85 million investment in Superdome upgrades. The overhaul added 3,200 new seats, club lounges, 16 new box suites, a new team store and more concessions options. Whatever extra money Benson could squeeze out of the new amenities was his to keep.

The LSED estimated he would clear at $12 million or more each year. If the Saints didn't make at least that much, the state agreed to pay the team cash to make up the difference.

From Benson's standpoint, though, he was still going to get shorted $11.5 million, compared with his old deal.

Enter the real estate exchange.

Dominion Tower and the New Orleans Centre, a vacant office building and a defunct shopping mall, sat directly across the street from the Superdome.

With no private buyers willing to take the risk, the LSED had been considering buying the properties. The idea was to have the state move its local offices into Dominion Tower, and rent from the state agencies would provide cash flow that could be used to subsidize Benson's operations.

Then-Gov. Bobby Jindal was against the plan, Thornton said. Ever the conservative, Jindal thought private business would do better on the real estate management than the state.

Benson agreed to step in. Aided by a slew of tax breaks, his real estate company, Zelia LLC, paid $42.1 million to acquire the office tower and mall and agreed to absorb another $40 million in renovation costs.

In exchange, the state agreed to move government agencies into two-thirds of the 488,000-square-foot office building, renamed Benson Tower. The lease was good for the duration of the Saints' 15-year agreement to remain in New Orleans.

The LSED also agreed to transform Benson's newly acquired mall area into what is now Champions Square, an outdoor concert venue and fan zone. The district agreed to lease and operate the new attraction for the remainder of the Saints contract.


This post was edited on 9/12/17 at 1:20 pm
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
85137 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

See the previous link about the new Benson deal. It is around $28 million annually.


Call me crazy, but is it really a stretch to suggest the Saints generate more than $28MM annually back to the state coffers?
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:20 pm to
quote:


See the previous link about the new Benson deal. It is around $28 million annually

So $28 million is the total?

Dude. I thought you were talking about significant money.

My back of the envelope VERY conservative estimate for taxes paid by the players is $13M

LOL. It would be a walk in the park to account for greater than $30M

Find a real issue.
Posted by LSUnation78
Northshore
Member since Aug 2012
12085 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:21 pm to
Im particularly salty about the part where our tax dollars go to renting out space in Benson Tower
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14516 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:24 pm to
quote:

See the previous link about the new Benson deal. It is around $23.5 million annually.


And the bulk of that is the state leasing space in a building benson owes. Now they are probably paying too much, but their would be paying for office space somewhere. So the additional cost to the state is probably ~$10 million.

But that also kinda understates it since that is only subsidies. They state also forgoes revenue in a state owned building (the superdome).
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36211 posts
Posted on 9/12/17 at 1:24 pm to
quote:


But, before that happens, can we agree that if the impact was net neutral, it would be a good investment because of the increased intangible value it brings to the city and state


It would be a no brainer if in the end it was revenue neutral for the state; however, I don't believe that's the case.

I would like to be proven wrong.
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