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re: Are Obama and GW Bush the two worst presidents in US history?
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:16 pm to REG861
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:16 pm to REG861
quote:
Yea, Afghanistan was doing splendidly under the Taliban until we came in
The Taliban eradicated poppy cultivation basically destroying the world's largest supply of heroin.
1
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:23 pm to kingbob
quote:
The Taliban eradicated poppy cultivation basically destroying the world's largest supply of heroin.
Yes and no. When they came to power they did, but now they use it fund their insurgency. It's also believed by many that they eradicated much of it creating a cost spike to inflate the value of the crops they retained.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:26 pm to kingbob
quote:
Andrew Johnson was ineffective, but he didn't create massive, bankrupting entitlements that entrench the endless cycle of poverty.
He stood by while the Radical Republicans waged a devatating economic war on the former Confederate States.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:28 pm to benhamin5555
James Buchanan and Franklin Pierce they are not.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:30 pm to benhamin5555
quote:
Not going to argue definitively, but these two men have arguably done more bad to this country in back to back presidencies than any other.
Define "arguably".
Does it mean "arguably - the word you use when you don't feel like actually making an argument, but don't want to be accused of stating something as fact without evidence"
This post was edited on 1/29/14 at 10:32 pm
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:32 pm to kingbob
quote:the south started the war.
led a violent campaign against his own country resulting in over 600,000 casualties
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:33 pm to GoBigOrange86
quote:
James Buchanan and Franklin Pierce they are not.
seriously...why do these two failures get a pass here? No one ever mentions them.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:34 pm to REG861
quote:
seriously...why do these two failures get a pass here? No one ever mentions them.
I have a soft spot for Franklin Pierce because of his son's tragic death before his inauguration and his terrible alcoholism.
But he was still a bad president.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:38 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Lincoln ordered the fort to be resupplied and ordered the commander of the fort not to surrender. By the rules of engagement, the opposing commander, General Beauregard was obligated to begin bombarding the fort. War back then was a gentile pursuit with many rules to be observed in order to maintain one's honor. Basically, Lincoln baited the South into shooting first and Beauregard took the bait hook, line, and sinker.
Prior to Lincoln's order that the fort should not be abandoned and must be resupplied, the common consensus among the military was that the states had the right to peacefully secede. West Point even went so far as to pay for Southern cadets train tickets so they could return to their homes in the South. It was meant to be a fully peaceful secession. Lincoln disagreed and forced the South's hand. Much of the South didn't even join the Confederacy until Lincoln's armies invaded.
Prior to Lincoln's order that the fort should not be abandoned and must be resupplied, the common consensus among the military was that the states had the right to peacefully secede. West Point even went so far as to pay for Southern cadets train tickets so they could return to their homes in the South. It was meant to be a fully peaceful secession. Lincoln disagreed and forced the South's hand. Much of the South didn't even join the Confederacy until Lincoln's armies invaded.
This post was edited on 1/29/14 at 10:41 pm
Posted on 1/29/14 at 10:44 pm to GoBigOrange86
Bush and Obama are top 10 worst. Amazing what shite we've had at the top for 4 frickin terms.
Woodrow comes in the top 10 along with Buchanan and Hoover. Carter probably doesn't make the top 10, which feels crazy to say. LBJ is up there along with FDR.
Personally I find Ike and Teddy the 2 most appealing presidents.
Woodrow comes in the top 10 along with Buchanan and Hoover. Carter probably doesn't make the top 10, which feels crazy to say. LBJ is up there along with FDR.
Personally I find Ike and Teddy the 2 most appealing presidents.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:33 pm to kingbob
quote:
you mean creation of the UN, letting the Bolsheviks gain control of Russia, and setting up World War II?
I don't think people realize how cozy of a setup the UN is for the U.S.
Setting up WW2? If I'm not mistaken Wilson didn't want Britain and France to hammer Germany like they did after the war because of how Germany might react in the future. But did they listen? Nope. And Germany arose as a very powerful and very bitter nation.
And it sounds like you don't think he intervened enough in Russian affairs, but what about all the interventions in Latin America to ensure their governments were shaped the way we wanted them to be?
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:58 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
What you really mean is the news media kept telling you he was bad, just like they told you Obama was a savior.
I don't allow others to tell me what to think.
I don't allow others to tell me what to think.
Posted on 1/30/14 at 7:08 am to kingbob
quote:
Lincoln ordered the fort to be resupplied and ordered the commander of the fort not to surrender. By the rules of engagement, the opposing commander, General Beauregard was obligated to begin bombarding the fort. War back then was a gentile pursuit with many rules to be observed in order to maintain one's honor. Basically, Lincoln baited the South into shooting first and Beauregard took the bait hook, line, and sinker.
Obligated? Or I guess they could have left the fort alone considering it belonged to the US government?
Posted on 1/30/14 at 12:30 pm to kingbob
quote:
Much of the South didn't even join the Confederacy until Lincoln's armies invaded.
...and a lot of areas in the South sympathetic to the Union joined the Rebellion when Union troops began raping, pillaging, starving, and murdering the local populations.
Posted on 1/30/14 at 2:38 pm to benhamin5555
W isn't even close to being one of the worst
Posted on 1/30/14 at 2:43 pm to benhamin5555
I think they're both just average dudes who were/are in over their heads. Bush had more raw leadership ability. Obama has more raw political ability. Neither of those characteristics has translated into effective governance.
Of course, the huge advantage Obama has is that his supporters either don't know he's terrible or don't care. Bush's critics were much tougher.
Of course, the huge advantage Obama has is that his supporters either don't know he's terrible or don't care. Bush's critics were much tougher.
This post was edited on 1/30/14 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 1/30/14 at 8:22 pm to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
GWB was hit with a devastating challenge of defending our country against a terroist attack, and imo did a great job.
Against Afghanistan where Bin Laden was known to be. Yes he did. ANY US President, left or right would have done the EXACT same thing.
Lied about Iraq because it was Cheney's agenda. Notice how the two's relationship changed at the end of 2nd term. Bush learned that his dad was correct about his son's reasons for attack.
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