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8th Air Force Twin Raids on Regensburg and Schweinfurt 8/17/43

Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:39 pm
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:39 pm
The "Double Strike" raids on 8/17/43 were designed to confuse the German fighter defenses and minimize losses while striking the ME-190 fighter plane factory at Regensburg and the ball bearing plant at Schweinfurt.

"After being postponed several times by unfavorable weather, the operation, known within the Eighth Air Force as "Mission No. 84", was flown on the anniversary of the first daylight raid by the Eighth Air Force.

Mission No. 84 was a strike by 376 bombers of sixteen bomb groups against German heavy industry well beyond the range of escorting fighters. The mission inflicted heavy damage on the Regensburg target, but at catastrophic loss to the force, with 60 bombers lost and many more damaged beyond economical repair. As a result, the Eighth Air Force was unable to follow up immediately with a second attack that might have seriously crippled German industry. When Schweinfurt was finally attacked again two months later, the lack of long-range fighter escort had still not been addressed and losses were even higher. As a consequence, deep penetration strategic bombing was curtailed for five months."

Into Germany.





This is a really good picture because it shows 3 "combat boxes" in trail. The picture was taken from within the the third box. Each "box" had 18-21 bombers. They would go into a trail formation on the bomb run. So the target is out to the front and close.

Results and losses[edit]

55 bombers with 552 crewmen were listed as missing as a result of the August 17 double-target mission. Approximately half of those became prisoners-of-war, and twenty were interned. 60 aircraft were lost over German-controlled territory, in Switzerland, or ditched at sea, with five crews rescued. Seven aircrew were killed aboard bombers safely returning to base, and 21 wounded.

The 60 aircraft lost on a single mission more than doubled the highest previous loss at that time. There were also 55-95 additional aircraft badly damaged. Of those damaged, many were stranded in North Africa and never repaired.[1][2][4] Three P-47 Thunderbolts of the 56th Fighter Group and two RAF Spitfires were shot down attempting to protect the Schweinfurt force.

Spitfire pilots claimed 13 German fighters shot down and P-47 pilots claimed 19.[19][20] Gunners on the bombers claimed 288 fighters shot down,[21][22] but Luftwaffe records showed only 25-27 were lost.[1][2][3]

In Regensburg all six main workshops of the Messerschmitt factory were destroyed or severely damaged, as were many supporting structures including the final assembly shop. In Schweinfurt the destruction was less severe but still extensive. The two largest factories, Kugelfischer & Company and Vereinigte Kugellager Fabrik I, suffered 80 direct hits.[23] 35,000 m² (380,000 square feet) of buildings in the five factories were destroyed, and more than 100,000 m² (1,000,000 square feet) suffered fire damage.[24] All the factories except Kugelfischer had extensive fire damage to machinery when incendiaries ignited the machine oil used in the manufacturing process.[25]




Schweinfurt 8/17/43

Albert Speer reported an immediate 34 percent loss of production,[26] but both the production shortfall and the actual loss of bearings were made up for by extensive surpluses found throughout Germany in the aftermath of the raid. The industry's infrastructure, while vulnerable to a sustained campaign, was not vulnerable to destruction by a single raid. Speer indicated that the two major flaws made by the USAAF in the August strike were first in dividing their force instead of all striking the ball-bearing plants, and second, failing to follow up the first strike with repeated attacks.[27][28][29]

203 civilians were also killed in the strike.[30]

The Schweinfurt mission in particular foretold the failure of deep penetration raids of Germany without adequate long-range escort. The 1st Bomb Wing was over German-occupied territory for three hours and thirty minutes, of which two hours and ten minutes, including all of the time spent over Germany itself, saw no fighter support whatsoever. When the second attack on Schweinfurt came on October 14, the loss of more than 20% of the attacking force (60 out of 291 B-17s) resulted in the suspension of deep raids for five months.

This mission was enshrined in fiction as the 'Hambrucken raid' in Beirne Lay and Sy Bartlett's novel, Twelve O'Clock High. It provides a reasonably accurate view of the thinking behind the planners' intention and the decisions that led to the abandonment of the goal of launching a double strike in such a way that the second strike would meet no aerial opposition; and of the action in the air itself. The Schweinfurt portion of the mission also formed the framework for the novel The War Lover, by John Hersey."

- wiki
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
34698 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:43 pm to
8th AF had the highest casualty rate of any US combat organization in the ETO.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:46 pm to
Love me some Baker Wun Sevens














Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:47 pm to
quote:

8th AF had the highest casualty rate of any US combat organization in the ETO.


More guys were killed in the 8th Air Force than in the whole Marine Corps during WWII.



Cambridge American Cemetery and Memorial
This post was edited on 8/17/17 at 2:53 pm
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:50 pm to
The 8th Air Force Museum is over in Pooler, GA near Savannah.



LINK

It so happens that the 8th Air Force was "Stood up" in Savannah n January 1942.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140565 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:51 pm to
Politics? How?
Posted by 14&Counting
Eugene, OR
Member since Jul 2012
37653 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

More guys were killed in the 8th Air Force than in the whole Marine Corps during WWII.


Really?
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:53 pm to
quote:

More guys were killed in the 8th Air Force than in the whole Marine Corps during WWII.

Really?


About 26K to 24K.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
34698 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:57 pm to
Hans Phillip, commander of JG1, 206 victories (177 in the east):


To fight against twenty Russians that want to have a bite of one, or also against Spitfires, is a joy. And one doesn't know that life is not certain. But the curve into seventy Fortresses lets all the sins of one's life pass before one's eyes. And when one has convinced oneself, it is still more painful to force it to every pilot in the wing, down to the last young newcomer.
Posted by Strannix
District 11
Member since Dec 2012
48950 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 2:58 pm to
Knew a guy in Bossier who was on them
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

Hans Phillip, commander of JG1, 206 victories (177 in the east): To fight against twenty Russians that want to have a bite of one, or also against Spitfires, is a joy. And one doesn't know that life is not certain. But the curve into seventy Fortresses lets all the sins of one's life pass before one's eyes. And when one has convinced oneself, it is still more painful to force it to every pilot in the wing, down to the last young newcomer.


Great stuff.

A Luftwaffe pilot said that trying to attack a B-17 group from behind was like trying to frick a porcupine that was on fire.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
34698 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 3:11 pm to
Ten .50 MGs per fortress. That adds up quick
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89552 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 3:18 pm to
August 1943 was the month that Hollywood star, Jimmy Stewart arrived at the 703d Bombardment Squadron. They were still in Sioux City at the time of "Double Strike."

quote:

Twelve O'Clock High


I think the film version reinstates the actual names and refers to Schweinfurt by name.

It also contains the CMH citation of fictional Lt. Jesse Bishop (based on real pilot John C. Morgan), associated with July 1943 raids on Hanover. It is based heavily on Morgan's.

Morgan's real world CMH citation:
quote:


For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty, while participating on a bombing mission over enemy-occupied continental Europe, 28 (sic) July 1943. Prior to reaching the German coast on the way to the target, the B17 aircraft in which 2d Lt. (sic) Morgan was serving as co-pilot was attacked by a large force of enemy fighters, during which the oxygen system to the tail, waist, and radio gun positions was knocked out. A frontal attack placed a cannon shell through the windshield, totally shattering it, and the pilot's skull was split open by a .303 caliber shell, leaving him in a crazed condition. The pilot fell over the steering wheel, tightly clamping his arms around it. 2d Lt. Morgan at once grasped the controls from his side and, by sheer strength, pulled the aircraft back into formation despite the frantic struggles of the semiconscious pilot. The interphone had been destroyed, rendering it impossible to call for help. At this time the top turret gunner fell to the floor and down through the hatch with his arm shot off at the shoulder and a gaping wound in his side. The waist, tail, and radio gunners had lost consciousness from lack of oxygen and, hearing no fire from their guns, the copilot believed they had bailed out. The wounded pilot still offered desperate resistance in his crazed attempts to fly the aircraft. There remained the prospect of flying to and over the target and back to a friendly base wholly unassisted. In the face of this desperate situation, 2d Lt. Officer Morgan made his decision to continue the flight and protect any members of the crew who might still be in the ship and for 2 hours he flew in formation with one hand at the controls and the other holding off the struggling pilot before the navigator entered the steering compartment and relieved the situation. The miraculous and heroic performance of 2d Lt. Morgan on this occasion resulted in the successful completion of a vital bombing mission and the safe return of his aircraft and crew.


That is the sort of man we sent to fight that war. Morgan was 28 years old at the time of the action described.
Posted by Big Scrub TX
Member since Dec 2013
33446 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 3:19 pm to
quote:

That is the sort of man we sent to fight that war.
Posted by stelly1025
Lafayette
Member since May 2012
8517 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 6:46 pm to
Just asked my wife about her Grandmother who was from Regensburg and had to walk by foot to Amberg which is about 40 miles with my mother in law who was a toddler at the time she was born in 41 and her brother who was 2 years older than her. She will ask her mom tomorrow ,but I am pretty sure that this would be the raid that made them leave it would be about right. This is pretty neat and just a sidenote if any of you ever get to travel Regensburg is an awesome city to go to.
This post was edited on 8/17/17 at 6:47 pm
Posted by Godfather1
What WAS St George, Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
79718 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 6:52 pm to
quote:

That is the sort of man we sent to fight that war.


quote:




frick you.
Posted by hawgfaninc
https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A
Member since Nov 2011
46453 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 6:53 pm to
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
43341 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 6:55 pm to
Lived in Schweinfurt for two years. In fact the Kaserne I was on was built on the old Nazi airstrip.
Posted by WhiskeyPapa
Member since Aug 2016
9277 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 9:38 pm to
quote:

Lived in Schweinfurt for two years. In fact the Kaserne I was on was built on the old Nazi airstrip.





When the 42nd "Rainbow" Infantry Division liberated Schweinfurt in 1945, they sent the Nazi flag flying over the town hall to the men of the 305th Bombardment Group. Now housed at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio, the flag is inscribed with the simple words, "The Rainbow has avenged your losses at Schweinfurt."
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
34698 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 10:19 pm to
quote:

When the 42nd "Rainbow" Infantry Division liberated Schweinfurt in 1945, they sent the Nazi flag flying over the town hall to the men of the 305th Bombardment Group. Now housed at the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio, the flag is inscribed with the simple words, "The Rainbow has avenged your losses at Schweinfurt."


Go, Rainbow!
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