re: 4 Billion could build a fence.

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What about the illegals that arrive here legally and overstay their welcome?

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Well you are right a fence wouldn't fix that.

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I've been warning that our biggest illegal immigration concern should be visa overstays, not the border since we published "No Coyote Needed: U.S. Visas Still an Easy Ticket in Developing Countries" five years ago. All of the problems identified in that report have intensified since 2008. We still have no system to track those who enter the country on short term visas; we still allow applicants to arrive as "tourists" and then adjust visa status so that they never have to go home; we still routinely give tourists a six-month stay on arrival and then let them extend for up to 18 months; and we still have shockingly high issuance rates in a variety of developing countries around the world. It should be no surprise that a larger and larger share of our illegal immigrant population arrives legally, most with tourist visas.

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Pew report synopsis

2008 Essay

Probably in the circular file along with Bush's.

LINK

Here. Let's trade links. 1.8M ordered deported. What percentage are in custody? Ordered removed means nothing if they're never actually removed. "Hey, Pedro! Show up on July 20th so we can ship you home. See you then!"

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ICE is carrying a case load of 1.8 million aliens who are either in removal proceedings or have already been ordered removed. Less than two percent are in detention, which is the only proven way to ensure departure.

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As to work site enforcement:

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Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), the division of ICE that is responsible for work site enforcement, combating transnational gangs, overstay enforcement, anti-smuggling and trafficking activity, and busting document and identity theft rings, now contributes very little to immigration enforcement. In 2013 HSI has produced only four percent of ICE deportations, making just a few thousand arrests per year throughout the entire country.

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I understand the argument that a fence would be seen as an inhumane way to deal with the problem, but the fact of the matter is these people are breaking the law when they illegally cross over the border.

When people within our borders break the law, they deserve due process before their rights are taken away. If found guilty, they might be put within the confines of a fence (jail). However, these immigrants are not on US soil before they cross (no due process rights), and the fence is a preventative measure to keep them from breaking the law.

Why not think about it as a humane way to protect/prevent these people from committing a crime where their actual rights might be judicially taken away?

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Who is claiming the Party of No won't move on comprehensive immigration reform? One is in charge the other is in Texas, you know there is a difference right?

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I don't care who is worse at what. Both of these parties are horrific and have entirely abandoned the needs of the populous.

The approval ratings are all you need to see and I'm not talking about the Obama or Bush.

Also, if either party is serious about solving this problem and worried about the cost, why not end the "War on Drugs" and use those personnel to perform border security functions? A major impetus preventing the end to it are the police unions that receive federal funding for drug enforcement activities. Rewire that money and retool them for border enforcement. Boom. There are the personnel and funding without having to sink further into debt.

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I'm just throwing this stuff out there to illustrate that this problem is not analyzed in a vacuum. Fix one side of the foundation, many parts of the interior get cracked.

There is no easy fix, and there is no way to crush illegal immigration, assuming any politician ever wanted to, which they don't, because the folks that pay for campaigns need illegal labor.

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I absolutely agree with this. I was speaking in terms of the effectiveness of a wall, not illegal immigration in general.

One of the major issues that we have with Mexico is that our war on drugs has transferred much of the power in Mexico to non state actors which makes it impossible for the USGOV to conduct meaningful diplomatic solutions to problems like border control. This problem will turn into a nightmare for our southern neighbors if we suddenly took away the black market that feeds the cartels by decriminalizing the drug trade. If we think middle eastern Islamic terrorism is our gravest security threat, then see what happens when we pull the rug out from under the Mexican shadow governments run by the cartels.

I have always felt that the gravest security threat facing our nation revolves around South America and their enormously powerful cartels. It is the primary reason that I feel a legitimate obstacle at the border is in order. I think most Americans think that we are impervious to cross border raids and indirect fire attacks but the average American doesn't really know jack shite about insurgency and civil war in a modern context. A good comparison to what might occur given the right circumstances is Lebanon. They deal with similar issues (albeit with a different genesis) concerning immigration and border country relations that I predict we will one day face in the United States.

All the components are there for a protracted struggle with South American and Central American countries. They have a healthy insurgent population within our borders which includes plenty of agents with legitimate access to critical infrastructure and information and most importantly they have meaningful relationships developed within our country. All of the things the Islamic terrorists want to have access to, Mexican Cartels have in spades. After working on ME terrorism for the better part of my life, I have personally made the judgement that they can only dream of being a fraction as effective as Mexico could be in the right circumstances.

Shitty situation. That is really all there is to it.

ETA: I will just add this about the situation in Mexico. The USGOV has created this problem by overreaching its bounds and playing big brother concerning the individuals right to ingest potentially harmful substances. This is the product of big government and the constant war on individual freedoms in the Unites States. We now spend billions on he war on drugs, billions dealing with illegal immigration and billions propping up a stooge government in mexico to counter the shadow governments established on the illegal drug trade.

LINK to Immigrants IRS refunds

I wouldn't say the immigrants are net contributors to taxes.