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re: Ben Affleck wanted his slave owner ancestor 'censored' from Finding Your Roots
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:11 am to fatheadgator
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:11 am to fatheadgator
This is the problem, there are several (6 or 7 I think are currently in existence where we know who they were; there's a smithsoniqn article about it) portraits of blacks in confederate garb leading to the false notion they participated in combat. They did not. Likewise, there are mistaken reports because there were many spaces brought to camp by they're masters and to work; but they did not participate in combat. Much of the myth revolves around a now easily disproven Bull a Run account republished by F. Douglass newspaper.
James McPherson (and other respected historians have said this too) that he's read tens of thousands of letters and diary entries from northern and southern soldiers and has not encountered any evidence of blacks actively participating in combat for the confederacy.
It just doesn't make sense from any rational perspective that large numbers or hell even small numbers of blacks would fight for confederacy (or in the oft cited Louisiana creole regiment even be allowed too.) The whole notion is absurd and it's incredible to think of the reasons why certain people cling to the myth despite overwhelming information to the contrary.
James McPherson (and other respected historians have said this too) that he's read tens of thousands of letters and diary entries from northern and southern soldiers and has not encountered any evidence of blacks actively participating in combat for the confederacy.
It just doesn't make sense from any rational perspective that large numbers or hell even small numbers of blacks would fight for confederacy (or in the oft cited Louisiana creole regiment even be allowed too.) The whole notion is absurd and it's incredible to think of the reasons why certain people cling to the myth despite overwhelming information to the contrary.
1
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:12 am to fatheadgator
Double post
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 9:13 am
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:13 am to fouldeliverer
quote:
The whole notion of "white" and "black" is a modem convention so we can't discuss slavery of antiquity in a racial fashion.
You're not a very good history teacher. There were white slaves in Africa at the same time there were black slaves here
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:16 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
President Jefferson was impressively observant.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:17 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
You totally missed or didn't understand the point. But yes you are correct in N Africa there were slaves from S Europe and the Balkans. But it was religiously not wasn't racially justified, the modern notions of race didn't exist for them. Its conventions were developed by Europeans for new world slavery.
Furthermore there wasn't a pan-African identity felt among the people.
Furthermore there wasn't a pan-African identity felt among the people.
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 9:21 am
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:19 am to fouldeliverer
You just said it was in antiquity, and it happened at the same time as the Anerican slave trade,?so should that be considered antiquity as well?
The Barbary pirates did not care about religion
The Barbary pirates did not care about religion
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 9:21 am
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:24 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
You are confused and confusing me. I said slavery in antiquity wasn't built upon racial justifications. new world slavery was particularly for the British.
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 9:25 am
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:28 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
As far as your statement about the Barbary Pirates, that is incorrect. By and large, they freed those who converted to Islam. And they did not enslave other Muslims.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 9:48 am to fouldeliverer
quote:
Holy mother of god. As a history teacher it actually pisses me off that there are people like you spreading this fricking bull shite. It boggles my mind that multiple people believe this. It's infuriating how many of you buy into this and other myths like many black southerners owned slaves or there were black confederate soldiers. Have you ever read any antebellum primary sources in your life? God damn, just read Thomas Jeffersons notes on Virginia and tell me that it wasn't racial.
as a history teacher you practice slavery 5 days a week because you probably coach the basketball team
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:05 am to ColeCoushCoush
So sorry to offended you with history. I'll promptly send you a check for reparations. Don't bother opening a history book ever, just go by what the liberal media spews to you....
Your bias and ignorance is showing.....
Your bias and ignorance is showing.....
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:16 am to fouldeliverer
Most blacks served the army in support areas. Stewards, cooks and the like. There was a small number who served with various artillery brigades as freedmen. Forrest had several blacks fight with him under his command. The number is extremely small but not zero.
Sorry my friend, history is not black and white and does not fit into a narrative that suits you, it's shades of grey.
Sorry my friend, history is not black and white and does not fit into a narrative that suits you, it's shades of grey.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:22 am to WalkingTurtles
Served and forced are two different things. And please provide me with reliable source material that Nathan Bedford Forrest who led a massacre of surrendered Union black soldiers had blacks fighting for him. I'll sit back and wait...forever. Idiot.
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 11:13 am
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:23 am to Ghostfacedistiller
I see nothing wrong with what he did. He is embarrassed and didn't want anybody to know.
Proud to say my ancestors didn't own slaves...
however do not forget Brazil, when you want to blame whitey for all African slaves....
look at this....any doubt should be cast aside...
Proud to say my ancestors didn't own slaves...
however do not forget Brazil, when you want to blame whitey for all African slaves....
quote:4.5 million African slaves....
In 1550, Brazil became a major importer of African slaves, making slaves an estimated 38.3 percent of the population of Rio de Janeiro, its capital city.2 This pattern continued as nearly four million slaves were imported into Brazil during its colonial era. In a 2010 Brazil census, it was found that “97 million Brazilians, or 50.7% of the population, now define themselves as black or mixed race…making African-Brazilians the official majority for the first time.”
look at this....any doubt should be cast aside...
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:26 am to fouldeliverer
quote:
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
Teacher I trust you are also providing your students quotes on how President Lincoln felt about the African race as well? I mean, all the good history books have Lincoln as the freer of the slaves and a defender of the Africans, surely there wouldn't be any quotes laying around with a hint of racism now would their?:
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."- Abraham Lincoln
You do have to give Lincoln credit, he didn't want to deny the negro all of their rights, just most I guess?
This post was edited on 4/18/15 at 10:31 am
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:29 am to bigbowe80
Of course racism was prevalent in the North as well. Even among abolitionists, many felt that blacks shouldn't have equal rights and were not equal. But that's not what we were debating. It's not as if all Northerners or even Lincoln himself were a paragons of virtue.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:31 am to MyNameIsNobody
Umm you realize the Portuguese were the ones importing slaves into Brazil not natives...
But yes only 4-7% of the African slave trade ended up in mainland North America. A lot of that has to do with the rate of natural increase among slaves in NA and the high mortality rate of those in Carribean and SA where the population wasn't sustainable.
But yes only 4-7% of the African slave trade ended up in mainland North America. A lot of that has to do with the rate of natural increase among slaves in NA and the high mortality rate of those in Carribean and SA where the population wasn't sustainable.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:39 am to WalkingTurtles
quote:
So sorry to offended you with history. I'll promptly send you a check for reparations. Don't bother opening a history book ever, just go by what the liberal media spews to you....
Your bias and ignorance is showing.....
Haha, you're the one sounding offended. And we're not debating any facts of history here. Everyone knows there were some black slave owners. Sorry, but that doesn't mean that slavery wasn't racist.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:40 am to Ghostfacedistiller
quote:
Ben Affleck persuaded the producers of Finding Your Roots to edit out details of how his ancestors were slave owners even though it was a breach of PBS editorial rules.
Heh, heh, heh...and now everybody knows.
Good. Serves the fricking jagoff right.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:42 am to fouldeliverer
Damn, My history class textbooks were written by the white man...so I didn't realize African's had ships that could sail cross the seas....good to know that they didn't use their own ships...that would have looked really bad....
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:46 am to MyNameIsNobody
quote:
I didn't realize African's had ships that could sail cross the sea
Good point by you.
Thousands of years of human existence on that continent +tens of thousands of miles of coastline, and not one person ever conceived of a ship.
So you are correct, you can't pin that one on the native Africans.
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