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Message
re: Klopp is leaving Dortmund
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:38 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:38 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Hasn't the Etihad campus been open for like 6 months?
just bc it looks nice doesn't mean it will produce elite players.
City revamped their whole youth approach years ago buying the best kids around europe for top dollar and bringing in new scouts, when the take over happened and have not produced anything.
quote:
Also, how many current first team regulars from ManU came thought their academy?
United has played 7 academy grads under the age of 23 this year. Some have now gone on loan and one was sold.
McNair and Wislon have logged a good amount of playing time for 19 year olds.
United has played the most home grown players in the EPL this year.
1
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:41 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
just bc it looks nice doesn't mean it will produce elite players
That's true, but I think if you're going to be fair you should give them a little time with their new facility.
quote:
United has played 7 academy grads under the age of 23 this year. Some have now gone on loan and one was sold.
That's not what I asked
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:41 pm to RandySavage
quote:
This is a new era, for better or worse, where money ultimately rules. Clubs can't sustain real success trying to do it the way Dortmund, Southampton, or whoever else you want to throw out there are doing it.
Dortmund is a global grand and plays infront of a packed 80k stadium each week and makes loads of revenue. They went from a mismanaged almost bankrupt club to a very rich one the last 10 years.
quote:
If Dortmund are content to play second fiddle to Bayern and fight for a CL spot every year and get bounced early out of Europe they can probably do that but, as you say, for the second biggest club in Germany they should strive for more.
They have the resources to contend in europe and did it before Klopp was the coach.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:45 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
That's true, but I think if you're going to be fair you should give them a little time with their new facility.
why?
they have had the coaches and scouts there for years.
quote:
That's not what I asked
Wilson has played 16 matches this year and has spent time out being injured
McNair who also spent a good amount of time injured has played in 14 matches. Both are only 19
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:51 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
They have the resources to contend in europe and did it before Klopp was the coach.
"flash in the pan"
Thats a frickin' joke. They're a huge club.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:57 pm to nvasil1
quote:
Perhaps. IMO this season was more of an aberration than a sign of things to come for Dortmund.
I don't disagree but from the times I've watched Dortmund it seems that the midfield and backline were really struggling to press to the level that system absolutely demands, from a physical and quickness standpoint.
People talk about losing forwards because people like to focus on forwards but the real difference from what I've seen is midfield and defense.
They are all a step too slow in reacting and it makes the whole tactics often look like desperation pressing from a side trailing in added time.
Since it's pretty much all experienced players under Klopp in those positions, one wonders if there's some mental/physical wear and tear involved and that it's not a system better for 20-25 year olds than even players their mid to late 20s.
Maybe this isn't the case at all but although Dortmund were snake bit by injuries at times this season, when I've watched it's just as often been a midfielder not pressing quickly enough to cut off an angle and/or then Subotic and Hummels arriving a half step late for a desperation step in and getting turned for jailbreak after jailbreak etc etc that's been the issue.
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 4/16/15 at 2:58 pm to ThisWayChad
quote:
Gunners win the league next year and Le Professeur rides off into the sunset?
would be my preferred ending to a great career.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 3:05 pm to STLhog
quote:
"flash in the pan"
Thats a frickin' joke. They're a huge club.
they won europe in the 90's
but this is a flash in the pan
Posted on 4/16/15 at 3:06 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Im gonna be real frickin butthurt if they hire Tuchel
Posted on 4/16/15 at 3:08 pm to wm72
Ive watched a good amount of their matches this year.
It just looks like they don't play as a cohesive unit at all this season.
It just looks like they don't play as a cohesive unit at all this season.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 3:31 pm to wm72
quote:
I don't disagree but from the times I've watched Dortmund it seems that the midfield and backline were really struggling to press to the level that system absolutely demands, from a physical and quickness standpoint.
People talk about losing forwards because people like to focus on forwards but the real difference from what I've seen is midfield and defense.
They are all a step too slow in reacting and it makes the whole tactics often look like desperation pressing from a side trailing in added time.
Since it's pretty much all experienced players under Klopp in those positions, one wonders if there's some mental/physical wear and tear involved and that it's not a system better for 20-25 year olds than even players their mid to late 20s.
Maybe this isn't the case at all but although Dortmund were snake bit by injuries at times this season, when I've watched it's just as often been a midfielder not pressing quickly enough to cut off an angle and/or then Subotic and Hummels arriving a half step late for a desperation step in and getting turned for jailbreak after jailbreak etc etc that's been the issue.
The forwards are worth talking about, because they haven't scored many goals this season (I thought Immobile would be a huge signing for them), but I think you're on to something with wear and tear in this system.
Klopp has tinkered with formations and lineups this season, which might be evidence that he knows his bread-and-butter isn't working like it used to, but hasn't figured out how else to use players meant to work within his system. He even remarked in his press conference that he was no longer the perfect manager for Dortmund.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 3:39 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
It just looks like they don't play as a cohesive unit at all this season.
Which is odd given that the majority of matches I've seen it's been:
Hummels, Subotic, Schmelzer, Pisczek, (and/or Blaszykowski, Sokratis)
Bender, Sahin, Gundogan, Reus ect in the lineup.
You can talk injuries for the dropped matches early on but they've looked pretty lost with all these guys playing as well.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 3:50 pm to nvasil1
quote:
he forwards are worth talking about, because they haven't scored many goals this season (I thought Immobile would be a huge signing for them), but I think you're on to something with wear and tear in this system.
Klopp has tinkered with formations and lineups this season, which might be evidence that he knows his bread-and-butter isn't working like it used to, but hasn't figured out how else to use players meant to work within his system. He even remarked in his press conference that he was no longer the perfect manager for Dortmund.
Thanks. I didn't know he had commented on it.
Some of that is a little concerning if you're a huge club thinking you want Klopp to take over a lineup of 25-30 yo galacticos you'll purchase.
It is certainly a good point about forwards scoring goals but I was intending more to say that the breakdown behind them may be much more the issue.
Against Juve, for example, Immobile and Aubameyang only touched to ball infrequently when the dropped to play little passes 25 meters out with a wall of defenders in front of them when Juve conceded possession. The press never resulted in getting these guys into open spaces, which is what they're actually good at.
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 4/16/15 at 4:14 pm to wm72
quote:
Some of that is a little concerning if you're a huge club thinking you want Klopp to take over a lineup of galacticos
Agreed. I have my doubts about a huge club giving him the time and control to implement his philosophy. Even though I think City is in a situation where they would benefit from Klopp in long run, I don't think they have the patience for him either.
Personally, I think Milan would be a great project for him because they need some clear direction. Unfortunately, the uncertainty around the sale of the club might scare Klopp away.
quote:
It is certainly a good point about forwards scoring goals but I was intending more to say that the breakdown behind them may be much more the issue.
Against Juve, for example, Immobile and Aubameyang only touched to ball infrequently when the dropped to play little passes 25 meters out with a wall of defenders in front of them when Juve conceded possession. The press never resulted in getting these guys into open spaces, which is what they're actually good at.
Gotcha. I was thinking more from the standpoint that they haven't finished well when they've had goalscoring opportunities. But the problems elsewhere on the field certainly might be the bigger issue.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 4:25 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
they won europe in the 90's
but this is a flash in the pan
It takes a lot to live up to the historical standards of Chelski apparently.
FFS.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 5:25 pm to StraightCashHomey21
In the money era Dortmund has done nothing outside of that CL Final a couple of years ago. They weren't even in Europe for over a decade.
If their business model is to have money they won't spend they will stay largely irrelevant rather than a few blips of success here and there until their team is poached apart again.
If their business model is to have money they won't spend they will stay largely irrelevant rather than a few blips of success here and there until their team is poached apart again.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 5:39 pm to RandySavage
quote:
In the money era Dortmund has done nothing outside of that CL Final a couple of years ago. They weren't even in Europe for over a decade
When did the money era begin for you? Back-to-back Bundesliga titles and a domestic cup is a little more than nothing.
Again, they were almost bankrupt. It's kind of difficult to get a team into European competition if you're just trying to stay in business. And they weren't out of Europe for over a decade.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 7:14 pm to nvasil1
quote:
Gotcha. I was thinking more from the standpoint that they haven't finished well when they've had goalscoring opportunities. But the problems elsewhere on the field certainly might be the bigger issue.
I'm not the best to judge the whole season form since I've watched them only in higher profile matches. Forwards not finishing chances may be their problem against some of the lower table sides.
I've seen them, midfielders and CBs getting beaten too easily when pressing has been the main issue. I would add though that they seem to have few ideas on how to break down a team that concedes possession and doesn't care if they nick it back in non-threatening positions.
quote:
Personally, I think Milan would be a great project for him because they need some clear direction. Unfortunately, the uncertainty around the sale of the club might scare Klopp away.
AC Milan could certainly use some direction but I'd imagine their way will be bring in investors and throw money at it.
If Inter didn't have Mancini now with the owner's support to re-build that would be a good fit since they're really focusing on younger players and have a good youth system.
This post was edited on 4/17/15 at 9:13 am
Posted on 4/17/15 at 9:05 am to nvasil1
quote:
When did the money era begin for you? Back-to-back Bundesliga titles and a domestic cup is a little more than nothing.
European football did not exist before Roman Abromovich purchased Chelsea.
Didn't you know that?
Posted on 4/17/15 at 10:16 am to nvasil1
quote:
Personally, I think Milan would be a great project for him because they need some clear direction. Unfortunately, the uncertainty around the sale of the club might scare Klopp away.
Would love to see him try to right the ship in Milan. Some rough times after the great start to the year.
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