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re: Mickey and Martin talk about future after the game
Posted on 3/20/15 at 11:37 am to LSUfan4444
Posted on 3/20/15 at 11:37 am to LSUfan4444
quote:
The thought that Mickey needs to stay because he isn't ready and Martin should because he is more ready is way off.
Martin is more ready, has a better body for his position, and has more upside.
quote:
If anything, Mickey can't do much to improve his stock by coming back
He's probably not going to be drafted. He certainly could improve his stock.
quote:
Martin can likely guarantee a multi year 1st round deal (possible lottery).
He's going to be a first round pick.
quote:
Mickey won't come back and develop a perimeter game, what he is this year is what he will be next year and is a project for anyone who drafts him.
meh. These kids are still young. Mickey made a large leap forward this year. If he made a similar leap next year, he would be All-SEC level (like he was for part of the year this year).
1
Posted on 3/20/15 at 11:39 am to BGSB
quote:
Mickey is a better prospect than his teammate (Jarell Martin) even if his teammate was more heralded coming out of high school
He's going to be proven wrong.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 11:40 am to tiger91
quote:
Think we're talking several hundred thousand? Can they get insurance for next year if they return to LSU and get injured?
Keep in mind that these are guaranteed contracts:
NBA Rookie Scales
This only applies to Martin. Mickey has no shot of being drafted in the first round.
This post was edited on 3/20/15 at 11:41 am
Posted on 3/20/15 at 11:49 am to moneyg
There are compelling reasons for both to stay, from simply an NBA development standpoint.
It appears there's an outside chance for one or both to earn a few hundred thousand next year. Many posters suggest a year of development (and a year deferment of POSSIBLE salary) could substantially increase the 1) prospect of getting a salary AT ALL and 2) doubling or substantially increasing that salary.
The risk: injury, for which there is insurance.
That's just the basketball side.
Do either of these young men value a college degree? Just asking, b/c if you would trying to counsel these guys, you would want to discuss all this.
It appears there's an outside chance for one or both to earn a few hundred thousand next year. Many posters suggest a year of development (and a year deferment of POSSIBLE salary) could substantially increase the 1) prospect of getting a salary AT ALL and 2) doubling or substantially increasing that salary.
The risk: injury, for which there is insurance.
That's just the basketball side.
Do either of these young men value a college degree? Just asking, b/c if you would trying to counsel these guys, you would want to discuss all this.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 11:55 am to nitwit
quote:
There are compelling reasons for both to stay, from simply an NBA development standpoint.
It appears there's an outside chance for one or both to earn a few hundred thousand next year. Many posters suggest a year of development (and a year deferment of POSSIBLE salary) could substantially increase the 1) prospect of getting a salary AT ALL and 2) doubling or substantially increasing that salary.
The risk: injury, for which there is insurance.
That's just the basketball side.
Do either of these young men value a college degree? Just asking, b/c if you would trying to counsel these guys, you would want to discuss all this.
The argument for Mickey is easy...he isn't going to be drafted and his only option will be D-League or overseas. At LSU, he has chance to improve his stock and be drafted next year. If overseas is more attractive to him than LSU, then there is no pitch to make.
The argument for Martin is a bit different. I think his stock will rise between now and the draft, but if the concensus is that he's a bottom of the first round guy...then you point out his improvement in the back half of the season, and that barring injury he'd be a lock as a top 15 pick next year...maybe better. And, that's basically doubling your money for another year.
Martin has an actual decision. Going pro would be very reasonable for him. Mickey would just be deciding that he doesn't want to be in school anymore.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:06 pm to Sammobile
If they leave early, that the difference between successful basketball colleges like Kansas, Gonzaga etc.... compared to LSU's fart in the wind this year. Its unheard of the likes of kansas and Gonzaga players leaving early for the the NBA. They still have a lot to learn and teach when they become seniors...
This post was edited on 3/20/15 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:15 pm to tiger91
quote:
Think we're talking several hundred thousand?
It all depends..in the first round players can negotiate from 120% - 80% of the rookie wag scale. The difference in the wage scale between the last and second to last pick in the first round is less than $8,000, but if the player chosen last gets 120% and the player chosen second to last negotiates 90%, the player chosen last makes more.
The big difference is for the guy picked at the top of the second round. His contract is not guaranteed so while the guy picked last, going to the team who just won a title has a guaranteed contract, the guy talen one spot behind him of very similar talent is going to a bad team with no guaranteed multi year deal.
If you leave early and you are not a first round pick, but you can be by staying it is a HUGE mistake.
Brandon Bass is a great example of someone like Mickey. SEC POY, left early and was a 2nd round pick, but what he was asked to do at LSU under Brady is not what he was asked to do in the league to be successful. So, he left early (even as a 2nd rounder) worked thorugh the D-League, worked on his perimeter defense and range and has made himself into a good NBA player.
Like Bass, if Mickey comes back to LSU he won't do here what he is expected to do at the next level so while he is nowhere near being ready for the NBA he can become more ready by getting into the D Leage as soon as possible.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:16 pm to moneyg
quote:
Martin is more ready, has a better body for his position, and has more upside.
Which is exactly why he benefits more by coming back.
quote:
He's going to be a first round pick.
Impossible to say right now without knowing the influx of foreign talent who enters. HE will get his grades and if he projects high enough then yes..leave. But, if his projection is 25+, thats a HUGE risk for someone who can be top 10 next year.
Yes, he is more polished than Mickey right now. Yes, he has higher stock right now.
But, he has more to gain by returning.
This post was edited on 3/20/15 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:18 pm to TailgateTiger
quote:
Its unheard of the likes of kansas and Gonzaga players leaving early for the the NBA.
at Gonzaga, maybe. Not Kansas.
Zags havent exactly won anything of note either
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:19 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Not Kansas.
Give him a break..last years draft was really long ago
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:20 pm to Lester Earl
i've always admired what izzo has built at michigan state
dunphy at temple is the best "X & O" (and i fricking hate that label btw) coach in the college game IMO
dunphy at temple is the best "X & O" (and i fricking hate that label btw) coach in the college game IMO
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:31 pm to Sammobile
would rather have a team of good basketball players that stay for at least 3 years and gel as a team than have a team with 2 guys who can dunk and block shots and be more "athletic" but cant play fundamentally sound basketball. screw measurables and physical stats...give me a team of good basketball players that play team ball anyday of the week.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:52 pm to ImayGoLesMiles
Any of you that think Mickey would even get drafted, much less maybe in the first, don't know anything about basketball.
Mickey is Tyrus Thomas, but 2 inches shorter, has no shot, will have ZERO post game in the NBA b/c he's too small, and turns the ball over constantly, and on top of that, isn't a good on the ball defender.
WHo do you think he's going to gaurd in the NBA? Griffin, AD, Aldridge, Randolph, Duncan, Dirk, West, Monroe, Nene, Garnett?
he sure as hell can't gaurd the SF position.
So what's he going to do on defense in the NBA, which is all he has going for him since he can't shoot or post up, or dribble for that matter?
He's not going to go blocking guys like CP3, Lillard, Westbrook, and the rest of the NBA gaurds. Josh Gray's don't play in the NBA.
Martin has lottery potential easily. He can go this year and get drafted late 1st, or he can come back and work on his jumper and asserting himself more and become a top 10 pick easily, and the enormous jump in the salary cap after next year might give him another reason to stay in school.
Martin can become a more athletic David West in the post and/or Lamar Odom type player on the wing in the NBA. There is an all-star type ceiling for Martin with his size and athleticism. It's up to him how good he wants to be.
Mickey is Tyrus Thomas, but 2 inches shorter, has no shot, will have ZERO post game in the NBA b/c he's too small, and turns the ball over constantly, and on top of that, isn't a good on the ball defender.
WHo do you think he's going to gaurd in the NBA? Griffin, AD, Aldridge, Randolph, Duncan, Dirk, West, Monroe, Nene, Garnett?
he sure as hell can't gaurd the SF position.
So what's he going to do on defense in the NBA, which is all he has going for him since he can't shoot or post up, or dribble for that matter?
He's not going to go blocking guys like CP3, Lillard, Westbrook, and the rest of the NBA gaurds. Josh Gray's don't play in the NBA.
Martin has lottery potential easily. He can go this year and get drafted late 1st, or he can come back and work on his jumper and asserting himself more and become a top 10 pick easily, and the enormous jump in the salary cap after next year might give him another reason to stay in school.
Martin can become a more athletic David West in the post and/or Lamar Odom type player on the wing in the NBA. There is an all-star type ceiling for Martin with his size and athleticism. It's up to him how good he wants to be.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:58 pm to TailgateTiger
quote:
Its unheard of the likes of kansas and Gonzaga players leaving early for the the NBA
Dude, the #1 pick LAST YEAR was a freshman from Kansas.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:08 pm to tiger91
quote:
Think we're talking several hundred thousand? Can they get insurance for next year if they return to LSU and get injured?
Yes
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:08 pm to S
yea Izzo is a great program builder. I dont think he's had a 1 and done since Zach Randolph. He gets most guys for at least 3 years. Jason Richardson I think was 2 year guy
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:12 pm to Lester Earl
yea he gets guys who stay 3-5 years, and they become a team. always tough defensively and especially on the glass. good guard play with smart bigs...off the top of my head im not sure a guy has left early since shannon brown
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:13 pm to ImayGoLesMiles
quote:
would rather have a team of good basketball players that stay for at least 3 years and gel as a team than have a team with 2 guys who can dunk and block shots and be more "athletic" but cant play fundamentally sound basketball. screw measurables and physical stats...give me a team of good basketball players that play team ball anyday of the week.
Easier said than done. It's also not one or the other. The good teams (outside of Kentucky) get both.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:13 pm to S
gary harris, but its pretty rare for them.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:49 pm to Nissanmaxima
quote:
Wait, what? So what you are saying is that Martin has not improved from last year? Both need to improve their game and coming back would do that no matter who they are playing for.
Well, I suspect we'll get the chance to find out, as I doubt both will go. If one or both return next year, we can watch and see if he/they improve.
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