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re: Who is worse: Walter White or Daniel Plainview? (SPOILERS TIL THE END)
Posted on 3/20/15 at 8:28 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 3/20/15 at 8:28 am to OMLandshark
Overall, I suppose Walt is worse. His self-delusion destroyed a lot of lives.
Plainview, however, was pretty despicable if you think about it. No matter alcoholic self-destruction, his actions toward his son are inexcusable.
Plainview, however, was pretty despicable if you think about it. No matter alcoholic self-destruction, his actions toward his son are inexcusable.
0
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:01 am to OMLandshark
MY POST IS FULL OF SPOILERS:
Untrue. Not saving does not equal murdering (we can agree they are similar in moral depravity, though).
Kind of - but he was generally loyal and protective of Jesse to a fault - and took fairly significant risks to save Jesse's life on several occasions.,
But he didn't kill the kid. Deplorable, but Walt justified a lot of things due to desperation, "need" and exigency. His depravity knew very few limits.
At that point - Walt blamed all of his own internal flaws and failures on Jesse. He blamed Jesse for Hank's death.
Even Walt realized that was unnecessary, albeit too late. Again, he justified everything from his excuse bank.
But you are ignoring the obvious story of redemption at the end... he frees Jesse (at the cost of his own life), sets up his family for life (which is why he started the whole thing in the first place) - it doesn't make up for everything he did, but at least he found his center at the very end of the story.
(ETA: And at the end, Plainview is purely irredeemable - he went in the opposite direction of Walt, at least at the very end.)
quote:
He basically murdered his girlfriend simply because he could.
Untrue. Not saving does not equal murdering (we can agree they are similar in moral depravity, though).
quote:
He blackmails Jesse into doing all of his real dirty work.
Kind of - but he was generally loyal and protective of Jesse to a fault - and took fairly significant risks to save Jesse's life on several occasions.,
quote:
he poisons Jesse's adopted son in order to convince him to kill the man who would only harm him.
But he didn't kill the kid. Deplorable, but Walt justified a lot of things due to desperation, "need" and exigency. His depravity knew very few limits.
quote:
He sells Jesse into slavery, and then simply out of spite he tells Jesse how he basically killed Jane and enjoyed it.
At that point - Walt blamed all of his own internal flaws and failures on Jesse. He blamed Jesse for Hank's death.
quote:
And I haven't even brought up Mike
Even Walt realized that was unnecessary, albeit too late. Again, he justified everything from his excuse bank.
But you are ignoring the obvious story of redemption at the end... he frees Jesse (at the cost of his own life), sets up his family for life (which is why he started the whole thing in the first place) - it doesn't make up for everything he did, but at least he found his center at the very end of the story.
(ETA: And at the end, Plainview is purely irredeemable - he went in the opposite direction of Walt, at least at the very end.)
This post was edited on 3/20/15 at 10:03 am
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:10 am to OMLandshark
quote:
If Todd wasn't there, what do you think would have happened?
Everyone else would have hesitated and the kid would have gotten away.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:12 am to OMLandshark
You do realize he poisoned Brock with a completely curable poison on purpose and but for Jesse being at his wits end and telling the doctors to look for ricin, Brock would have eventually been fine, right?
Now, using kid as leverage is bad, but I don't think it was a true attempt on his life.
But Walt is a scumbag, no doubt.
Now, using kid as leverage is bad, but I don't think it was a true attempt on his life.
But Walt is a scumbag, no doubt.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:13 am to SEClint
quote:
His fingerprints are all over that lab, his confession tape is there, his prints were on the gun used to kill jack.
He can answer a bunch of questions for law enforcement - and everything he tells them will be consistent with the evidence, including evidence he was caged up at Jack's compound.
He can tell them what happened with Gus, Walt, Hank, etc., and probably buy a very short sentence or even probation - as he was clearly a small player. He might even have to go witness protection, although most of the dangerous people who could do him in are dead.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:31 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Jesse has a conscience unlike Walt.
Walt did too many things to help other people (potentially to his detriment) to say he didn't have a conscience. Now his pride definitely destroyed him and many other people in the process, but he did not act like someone without a conscience, particularly at the end.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:50 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
But you are ignoring the obvious story of redemption at the end..
The most real redemption was his coming to terms with the real reason he did it. He liked it and admitted it. Coming clean
Posted on 3/20/15 at 10:55 am to Tigertown in ATL
quote:
The most real redemption was his coming to terms with the real reason he did it. He liked it and admitted it. Coming clean
I agree - that moment was as powerful as any in the series.
But freeing Jesse, at the cost of his own life, was the ultimate act - and I do not believe he had any expectation of success, just that he would try. After all, he was the smartest guy he knew.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 11:01 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
But freeing Jesse, at the cost of his own life, was the ultimate act - and I do not believe he had any expectation of success, just that he would try. After all, he was the smartest guy he knew.
I think you're giving him a bit too much credit. He had maybe a month or two to live. It was more of a "well why the hell not" and a last stand for Walt to go out Scarface style, get vengeance on Hank, and if lucky free the one guy he's fricked over the most.
If Walt's cancer didn't return, wouldn't shock me if he found a way to smuggle himself over to Europe and reform his empire over there and never came back for Jesse. He may have found a way to smuggle money over to his kids and hire mercenaries to kill the Neo-Nazis which may then free Jesse in return, but that's about it.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 3:03 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
as he was clearly a small player.
He was the kingpin's partner. He confessed to killing a man, and everything else. At the time of his confession, it seemed like he didn't care to be alive..after being a slave at the compound and his reaction upon leaving..feels like he has a new appreciation for it. But back to being a partner, that's really not a small role, and law enforcement would need to go after someone.
If I were him, I'd go find Saul in Nebraska, cook a batch to fund my way into mexico, set up shop cooking for the zetas cartel and live happily ever after.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 3:45 pm to SEClint
quote:
If I were him, I'd go find Saul in Nebraska, cook a batch to fund my way into mexico, set up shop cooking for the zetas cartel and live happily ever after.
I seriously doubt that Jesse will ever cook meth again.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 3:57 pm to OMLandshark
White
Posted on 3/20/15 at 3:59 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I seriously doubt that Jesse will ever cook meth again.
His nonstop tears would ruin the batch anyway.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 4:30 pm to OMLandshark
I only saw a few episodes of breaking Bad, but that Landry (forget his name in B Bad) was absolutely soulless.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 4:46 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Jesse was his ultimate victim and plaything. Walt's soul I think was pretty much fricked from the start, but Jesse really was an innocent who just had a drug problem.
Screw Jesse. He would have been killed by Crazy 8 in the first episode if not for Walt.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 5:10 pm to nes2010
quote:
Screw Jesse. He would have been killed by Crazy 8 in the first episode if not for Walt.
If Walt hadn't started cooking in the first place, none of that would have happened.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 5:33 pm to OMLandshark
Crazy 8 blamed Jesse for his cousin getting busted. They thought he had dimed them out. That happened before Walt started cooking. He would have gotten killed.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 5:44 pm to nes2010
Misremembered that. Honestly watched the Pilot about 6 months ago, and thought that Jesse started fricking around with Crazy 8 because Walt got on board.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 5:54 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I seriously doubt that Jesse will ever cook meth again.
In real life, I would agree.
But the ratings for better call Saul in season three or at the end of season two may be a platform. Kinda miss captain cook.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 5:55 pm to OMLandshark
Plainview gained the world, but lost his soul.
Walter White lost his soul and everything else.
Both earned what was coming to them.
Walter White lost his soul and everything else.
Both earned what was coming to them.
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