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re: How many teams in west are more talented?
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:51 pm to ShamelessPel
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:51 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
Asik is 4th in rebound rate in the entire NBA.
So you think he's a better rebounder than Howard, Jordan, Chandler, Gasol, Bogut, Adams? Just b/c his rebounding rate is 4th, doesn't make him the best rebounder of the bunch.
He's no better, and no worse than those, and he has the worst hands, hands down, of those guys.
He's better than Splitter, but we all know Duncan is the center on that team, and he's no better of a rebounder than him.
So he's no better at rebounding than any of those teams if you ask me, and he's no worse, but he's definitely the worst on offense, by a mile.
Lets say it's the end of the game and you need a rebound, you telling me you trust Asik to get that rebound over everyone on the list except Jordan, b/c of his rebounding rate?
1
Posted on 2/4/15 at 12:59 pm to TeddyPadillac
Bogut? Yes. The rest? No that's why he was put 2nd to last in the original list. Bogut isn't even that good offensively.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 1:03 pm to htran90
He's a good passer. Probably 2nd after Gasol in that group.
I like Splitter a lot more than others here seem to. Great defender, good passer.
I like Splitter a lot more than others here seem to. Great defender, good passer.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 1:24 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:The benches have changed since earlier in the season. So you can't really go by the season stats.
Of the 8 teams we are discussing, they are 3rd in bench points and 3rd in differential points.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 1:31 pm to PrimeTime Money
Especially considering they traded away arguably their best bench player for Rondo.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 2:06 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Griffin and Zbo are both better offensively skilled
Player A- 22.6 ppg this season, offensive rating 113. True shooting percentage 55%. PER 22.9
Player B- 17.2 ppg this season, offensive rating 111. True shooting percentage 55.2%. PER 21.7
Player C- 24.6 ppg this season, offensive rating 126. True shooting percentage 61.1%. PER 32.
Which one is better?
quote:
Crawford is their SG, i don't care that Redick starts. When i thought of my rankings, i thought of 4th quarter of the playoffs roster, best 5.
If you just look at offense, yes. If you account for defense, rebounding, passing, basketball IQ. Hell No.
quote:
Asik is not better than Adams
Why do you think this?
Posted on 2/4/15 at 2:31 pm to sma19
quote:
Which one is better?
Those stats are all fine and dandy. I don't care what AD does to Sixers or Magic or whoever. When he plays Memphis and LAC, and he's guarding Randolph and Griffin, he's not any better than they are. They are better individual scorers, AD is more athletic, and a better shot blocker. He's not jumping over Griffin for boards or dunks, and he's not getting around Zbo for boards or dunks. They are bigger than him and can push him around. They are all about equal playing each other.
AD has played Memphis twice. Randolph whipped him the first go round, and finished with a double double the second go round, although AD had the better game the second go round.
Griffin out played him in their lone meeting.
quote:
If you just look at offense, yes. If you account for defense, rebounding, passing, basketball IQ. Hell No.
The way EG has been playing since his injury return, i can agree with you on this.
quote:
Why do you think this?
He's pretty much Asik with a little more energy, more athletic, not as smart, and can catch. Neither of them do anything that much better or worse than the other.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 3:47 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Those stats are all fine and dandy. I don't care what AD does to Sixers or Magic or whoever. When he plays Memphis and LAC, and he's guarding Randolph and Griffin, he's not any better than they are. They are better individual scorers, AD is more athletic, and a better shot blocker. He's not jumping over Griffin for boards or dunks, and he's not getting around Zbo for boards or dunks. They are bigger than him and can push him around. They are all about equal playing each other.
At least I'm using stats in the points im making, your using these very broad terms and giving no quantifiable proof of what your saying.
And you keep saying that when they play each other they are better scorers than AD. AD is an average post up defender but he has shown the ability to block those hook shots and other post shots guys like Randolph and griffin like to use, he's not a pushover down low like in previous seasons.
And those guys have to guard AD on the other end as well, and a player that can guard him is hard to find, and Blake and ZBo are not those players. Just because they are bigger does not mean they are better scorers or can stop AD from scoring. AD has a better and more consistent jump shot than both those guys not to mention his ability to handle the ball, drive to the basket, post fade, floater, better free throw shooting, and his ability to draw fouls, and that's only his ISO scoring, I won't even get into his transition or PnR. Only thing they are better at offensively is back to the basket.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 4:24 pm to sma19
Did you watch AD in his 3 games against those two guys this year?
I did give proof. they outplayed him in 2 of the 3 games they've played.
AD has blocked Duncan and Dirk and Aldridge doing that. He's not blocking Griffin and Zbo. THey aren't guys taking hook shots.
Griffin is just as athletic and mobile as AD, has a better post game, and shoots his jump shot just as good as AD, 48% compared to 46% for Griffin (40% for ZBo).
When they play each other, they pretty much are the same player, with Griffin being a little stronger, and AD being longer and more active on the offensive boards.
ZBo is a better down low offensive player than both of them by a lot. No one uses their body better than him in the league. He's the worse defender of the 3, but the best rebounder.
AD is the worst ISO scorer of the 3, not that he's bad by any means. How many points a game does AD score in an iso situation? 80% of his scores are jump shots off screens, dunks off screens, fast breaks and put backs. People that watch him know this, which is why you here announcers/analysts say that they think he will be the best player in the world once we get a coach that wants to actually use him as an offensive weapon and he develops his game more.
They also all three draw fouls at a rate of 15% of their FGA.
When those 3 guys play each other, their is no clear cut answer to say one is better than the other. They are each a little better or worse in different areas in those matchups. Watch them play each other and tell me differently.
quote:
At least I'm using stats in the points im making, your using these very broad terms and giving no quantifiable proof of what your saying.
I did give proof. they outplayed him in 2 of the 3 games they've played.
quote:
And you keep saying that when they play each other they are better scorers than AD. AD is an average post up defender but he has shown the ability to block those hook shots and other post shots guys like Randolph and griffin like to use, he's not a pushover down low like in previous seasons.
AD has blocked Duncan and Dirk and Aldridge doing that. He's not blocking Griffin and Zbo. THey aren't guys taking hook shots.
quote:
Just because they are bigger does not mean they are better scorers or can stop AD from scoring. AD has a better and more consistent jump shot than both those guys not to mention his ability to handle the ball, drive to the basket, post fade, floater, better free throw shooting, and his ability to draw fouls, and that's only his ISO scoring, I won't even get into his transition or PnR. Only thing they are better at offensively is back to the basket.
Griffin is just as athletic and mobile as AD, has a better post game, and shoots his jump shot just as good as AD, 48% compared to 46% for Griffin (40% for ZBo).
When they play each other, they pretty much are the same player, with Griffin being a little stronger, and AD being longer and more active on the offensive boards.
ZBo is a better down low offensive player than both of them by a lot. No one uses their body better than him in the league. He's the worse defender of the 3, but the best rebounder.
AD is the worst ISO scorer of the 3, not that he's bad by any means. How many points a game does AD score in an iso situation? 80% of his scores are jump shots off screens, dunks off screens, fast breaks and put backs. People that watch him know this, which is why you here announcers/analysts say that they think he will be the best player in the world once we get a coach that wants to actually use him as an offensive weapon and he develops his game more.
They also all three draw fouls at a rate of 15% of their FGA.
When those 3 guys play each other, their is no clear cut answer to say one is better than the other. They are each a little better or worse in different areas in those matchups. Watch them play each other and tell me differently.
Posted on 2/4/15 at 4:38 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
AD is the worst ISO scorer of the 3, not that he's bad by any means. How many points a game does AD score in an iso situation? 80% of his scores are jump shots off screens, dunks off screens, fast breaks and put backs. People that watch him know this, which is why you here announcers/analysts say that they think he will be the best player in the world once we get a coach that wants to actually use him as an offensive weapon and he develops his game more.
So you'd rather a ball stopper who slows down than offense than someone who is able to produce better numbers at a more efficient rate without stopping the offense?
Posted on 2/4/15 at 4:44 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
with Griffin being a little stronger
Griffin got bitch slapped by Eric Gordon, Quincy Pondexter, and Tyreke Evans last game. He got the switch multiple times and didn't abuse them or get to the rim once that I can remember. Multiple times he would pass out of the situation cause they were physical with him, especially Gordon. Wonderful, he can jump over KIA's and is super strong. Unfortunately, his finesse game isn't even in the same realm as Davis. Until recently, Davis has been insanely productive without a true PG. Coincidentally, Tyreke is pass-first and Davis' god-like PER is actually going UP!! again. Griffin can't even match his production running PnR with Chris fricking Paul.
TL:DR - You looked at 3 box scores and took that as gospel over a full season of work.
This post was edited on 2/4/15 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 2/4/15 at 5:20 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Did you watch AD in his 3 games against those two guys this year?
Yes I did. The clips game the whole pels team played like trash, hard to forget
quote:
AD has blocked Duncan and Dirk and Aldridge doing that. He's not blocking Griffin and Zbo. THey aren't guys taking hook shots.
block of zbo
and again
AD blocks Blake
just another post hook block
quote:
Griffin is just as athletic and mobile as AD, has a better post game, and shoots his jump shot just as good as AD, 48% compared to 46% for Griffin (40% for ZBo).
From the BSS article in early January davis hits 47.5 from midrange (good for 4th in the league) and griffin hits 38.02 (ranked 12th in the league)
BSS article
Not sure if the numbers changed much
quote:
When they play each other, they pretty much are the same player, with Griffin being a little stronger, and AD being longer and more active on the offensive boards. ZBo is a better down low offensive player than both of them by a lot. No one uses their body better than him in the league. He's the worse defender of the 3, but the best rebounder.
In the sense of theyre role in the offense I agree, and I agree with what your saying about ZBo, he can flat out rebound and he's a much better back to basket scorer, but not a better scorer overall. Apparently he is in ISO but your initial statement was just scorer.
quote:
80% of his scores are jump shots off screens, dunks off screens, fast breaks and put backs. People that watch him know this, which is why you here announcers/analysts say that they think he will be the best player in the world once we get a coach that wants to actually use him as an offensive weapon and he develops his game more.
This I disagree with, yes Davis gets a lot of points from hustle plays but only Blake griffin And lamarcus Aldridge have a higher usage rate among PF's. A lot of his jumpers come from getting the ball at the elbow or by the left block and he calls a clear out and pulls up in the guy's face, drives and pulls up, backs him down and then fades or drives and dunks/layup/floater. He gets jumpers off of screens every once in a while in a game (usually the first play of the game) but most time it's him getting it while posting his man up and then he turns and faces up
quote:
They also all three draw fouls at a rate of 15% of their FGA.
Never said they weren't just as good at that aspect, just said Davis was good at it.
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