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re: 70th Anniversary of Auschwitz Liberation: German Perspective
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:51 am to terd ferguson
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:51 am to terd ferguson
i agree. there is always some fanati waiting in the wing. Same with the constant threat of religoious based terrorism.
Taliban > Al Qaeda > ISIS > ISIL
the last two are basically the same. but more will pop up once you snuff the other out
Taliban > Al Qaeda > ISIS > ISIL
the last two are basically the same. but more will pop up once you snuff the other out
0
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:51 am to terd ferguson
quote:
You're missing my point. It's not about whether the action was correct or not... it's about getting an entire population (or at least the majority) involved in believing the action.
The issue with the Red Scare is it's actually the opposite. The media tried to convince the people that the Red Scare was hogwash, that all of these people were being railroaded and that they were all perfect, model citizens. In reality, McCarthy was right. It was the media, who was successful to a degree, that was trying to propagandize a population to make them believe a certain way. McCarthy was merely bringing to light criminal activity. The media sensationalized it to turn it into a witch hunt. The media wagged the dog of the American people to the point that they eventually rejected McCarthy.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:52 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
It's always interested me how what at that time was one of the most educated and enlightened populations in the world could be turned so fanatical to the point they set up and entire industrial complex for the sole purpose of eradicating another race of people.
Civilization is but the thinnest of veneers on utter madness.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:53 am to terd ferguson
quote:
They couldn't defeat the Nazi military machine... only 'merica could do that.
Russia says hello.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:53 am to terd ferguson
Mercedes and Theyssenkrupp are also on the list of those that profited if I'm not mistaken. It's a pretty impressive list of billion dollar companies
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:56 am to undecided
I had a chance to speak with an older gentleman who turned 16 in 1945 and lived outside Dresden (I think he was saying Dresden). He had a thick German accent and was very hard of hearing (granted, we were at a rifle range). It was fascinating listening talk about being in the Hitler youth as a pre-teen/teen. He spoke about the great pride he took in a rifle badge he earned when he was 12 in the Hitler youth. He recalled picking up the Allied leaflets on the banks of a nearby river warning of the coming bombing of Dresden.
Hard to imagine 'coming of age' during that time period.
Hard to imagine 'coming of age' during that time period.
This post was edited on 1/27/15 at 9:57 am
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:02 am to undecided
quote:
My mind is completely drawing a blank but there were several studies I learned about in Psychology class that attempted to recreate this. And I can't think of a single one. For whatever reason, Pavolov keeps coming to mind but I think maybe he was a precursor to the latter social theories that developed as a result of what occurred in Germany. Could someone help me out here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
Seems to highlight something similar
Also try A Class Divided Experiment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott
This post was edited on 1/27/15 at 10:05 am
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:06 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Civilization is but the thinnest of veneers on utter madness.
Good point. History has a litany of examples of seemingly civilized people being made fanatical by either religion or politics and the outcome being a massive bloodbath of some fashion or another. I think it would be a good subject for a thread to do a comparative discussion on which has been more of a bane to humanity, religious fanaticism or political fanaticism.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:10 am to Darth_Vader
quote:You could thank the dumbasses that signed the German death treaty in WWI for that. Wilson tried to warn them
It's always interested me how what at that time was one of the most educated and enlightened populations in the world could be turned so fanatical to the point they set up and entire industrial complex for the sole purpose of eradicating another race of people. The logistics and infrastructure that were required for the Holocaust to happen were massive and required the work of thousands of people.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:10 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
They couldn't defeat the Nazi military machine... only 'merica could do that.
Russia says hello.
But there's no way to know for sure if Russia would have been able to hold them off indefinitely w/o America entering the war. The Russian counter offensive and the winter of '41 hurt the Germans... but it's possible they could have recovered from that. But they had to send troops and supplies south for the invasion there and eventually defend the Eastern Front.
The German army was simply overwhelmed once America came to play.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:11 am to undecided
quote:
Mercedes and Theyssenkrupp are also on the list of those that profited if I'm not mistaken. It's a pretty impressive list of billion dollar companies
Just to give a little glimpse into how times have changed, the German company that was the primary producer of the famous German "88" dual purpose gun in World War II, is the same company that has for years, and even today produces the 120mm main gun on the American Abrams and British Challenger main battle tanks. It's a company named Rheinmetall.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:12 am to undecided
quote:
Mercedes and Theyssenkrupp are also on the list of those that profited if I'm not mistaken. It's a pretty impressive list of billion dollar companies
Read Operation Paperclip... it's about all the stuff that came out of Germany after the war. Mostly deals with the scientists that we were trying to get before Russia could get to them. The scientists that eventually played a major role in military advancements and even our space program.
The book also goes into some of the corporations that were involved in the Nazi war effort.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:16 am to terd ferguson
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:16 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Read Operation Paperclip... it's about all the stuff that came out of Germany after the war. Mostly deals with the scientists that we were trying to get before Russia could get to them. The scientists that eventually played a major role in military advancements and even our space program.
One of the main guys was a rocket scientist by the name of Wernher von Braun. He was the guy that designed the German V-2 rocket that the Germans used to bombard places like London in later stages of the war. He was brought to America after the war and for all intents and purposes is the father of the American Space Program. His crowing glory was the Saturn V program that took us to the moon. They even named the Civic Center in Huntsville, Alabama after him.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:18 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Mostly deals with the scientists that we were trying to get before Russia could get to them. The scientists that eventually played a major role in military advancements and even our space program.
I've only recently heard of this and was kind of appalled. Some of these guys worked at the Death Camps experimenting on prisoners. To know that they found asylum in the US was kinda of shocking.
I consider myself to be pretty cynical but that test the limits
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:19 am to Darth_Vader
There are several companies still in existence that used slave labor to manufacture products for Nazi Germany: Volkswagon, Audi (was another name at the time), Siemens, the companies that were once part of IG Farben (BASF, Bayer).
Hugo Boss was a member of the Nazi Party and made their uniforms.
Henry Ford was also a huge supporter of the Nazi Party and a well-known Anti-Semite
Hugo Boss was a member of the Nazi Party and made their uniforms.
Henry Ford was also a huge supporter of the Nazi Party and a well-known Anti-Semite
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:23 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Volkswagon
I believe the VW Bug was actually the idea of Hitler himself if I remember correctly.
quote:
Hugo Boss was a member of the Nazi Party and made their uniforms.
I believe he actually designed the iconic black SS uniforms down to the design of their rank insignia.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:24 am to undecided
quote:
I've only recently heard of this and was kind of appalled. Some of these guys worked at the Death Camps experimenting on prisoners. To know that they found asylum in the US was kinda of shocking.
I consider myself to be pretty cynical but that test the limits
It was either bring them to America and use them to further our technology or let the Russians get them. The choice there seems rather obvious...
Regardless of whether you agree with Nazi science or not, you can't argue that they were able to come up with some amazing technological advances during the time they were given free reign to experiment.
The best description I've seen is were I read where someone stated it was "science without conscience". It's a scary thought, but I'll be damned if it doesn't produce results.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:24 am to terd ferguson
Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were both American isolationists and supporters of Hitler. I'm pretty sure Ford had factories in Germany.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 10:29 am to White Roach
Let's have a holocaust for Muslims now
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