re: Spoon > Modest Mouse

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But albums? Come on. There's no argument that can be made that Spoon is better.

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I like Modest Mouse more too, but Spoon just released some good songs and Modest Mouse has been irrelevant for the past decade. There's certainly an argument. Their last album and tours have been shite and I have low expectations for the new stuff. Compare the song I posted from Spoon in this thread to King Rat. That's where there's no argument.

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Posted by hogfly What is the point of comparison between Spoon and Modest Mouse? They're very different bands. That's like comparing the Flaming Lips with Wilco, to me.

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Can you name me another band that was responsible for pioneering and creating indie rock in the 90s? Didnt think so

Their early albums are similar.

What does "pioneering indie rock" even mean?

I still maintain it's a false dichotomy.

The pixies kind of did unless you are one of the idiots that think REM invented indie rock or even go as far as to say the velvet underground. That is all pretty subjective. It all starts in the 90s for me as far as defining what the genre has become today. If spoon and MM arent genre defining then who is? And arent you the guy that hasnt seen them live? Bunch of preteen wannabe hipster noobs in here.

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REM

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lol

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Modest Mouse has LCW and M&A, that's about the highest mark they've had

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And that is a phenomenal peak.

To me that is like saying "Larry David created Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiam, ehh what else has he done?"

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The pixies kind of did unless you are one of the idiots that think REM invented indie rock or even go as far as to say the velvet underground. That is all pretty subjective. It all starts in the 90s for me as far as defining what the genre has become today.

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Well, if we want to be ahistorical, sure. But I will point out the Pixies broke after their last release in 1991, and their two best albums were both in the 80s. I love the Pixies, but they were definitely considered a second tier act at the time. We talked about this on another thread, but if you had a time machine and told people about the Pixies current influence and reputation, a person in 1990 would be absolutely shocked. But, let's be honest, that's because they influenced Nirvana so heavily. The Pixies massive influence is really a function of Nirvana's massive popularity.

But indie was born in the 80s, and it has its roots in the DIY punk scene of that era. It is such a bedrock of the genre, as sprawling as it is, that the 80s influence is sort of coded unthinkingly in to band's DNA. And see how many of the big indie labels of today have their genesis in the 80s: Merge, Matador, Sub Pop, 4AD, etc. (Tough & Go and Rough Trade both date back to the 70s).

You can argue Spoon and Modest Mouse are "genre defining" in the sense that they are massively popular. So sure, they are a good exemplar for the overall scene as they are most people's exposure to it. But that wasn't my objection. You argued they were "pioneering", and they are no such thing. They are the band that came after other bands' pioneering work (hey, good on them you can't control when you were born). But the whole idea of "indie rock" is just playing in a world primarily created by REM, Black Flag, and the SST bands.

I do think "indie" used to be a more meaningful term when the means of distribution of pop music were more tightly controlled. Post-internet, really anyone can put out anything and its cheap to record and distribute music to virtually any niche audience. That wasn't always so, hence the need for a indie, a virtual shadow music industry happily thriving in the shadows of the mainstream. Now, "indie" is just another part of the mainstream.

That's not a complaint, that's just an observation. Times change. But "our band can be your life" doesn't sound as radical as it did back when D Boon said it.

Thanks!