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Message
A few questions about the Senate torture report and torture in general
Posted on 12/9/14 at 8:51 am
Posted on 12/9/14 at 8:51 am
When all of these torture details came to light years ago, I was surprised it was such a big deal. Call me naive, but I guess I assumed that captured enemy combatants might get roughed up during war time.
Now this new report is coming out. I thought all of these details came to light years ago.
LINK
Why is this report being released? Do they really think it's a good time to release this report while ISIS is running rampant?
So what? Are they saying that if the torture had produced results, it would have been justified?
Now this new report is coming out. I thought all of these details came to light years ago.
LINK
quote:
The report is expected to conclude that the CIA repeatedly tortured around 20 detainees after 9/11, including three by the simulated drowning tactic known as waterboarding. It is also expected to accuse the CIA of repeatedly lying to Congress, the White House and the public.
Why is this report being released? Do they really think it's a good time to release this report while ISIS is running rampant?
quote:
The report is also expected to conclude that waterboarding and other interrogation tactics used on the three detainees — including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, whom the United States identifies as the architect of Sept. 11 — produced no results.
So what? Are they saying that if the torture had produced results, it would have been justified?
11
Posted on 12/9/14 at 8:52 am to DosManos
quote:
Why is this report being released?
Who is testifying today in the House?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 8:58 am to udtiger
quote:
Who is testifying today in the House?
Ahhhh, you talking about Gruber?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 8:59 am to DosManos
Yeah, but I assume the Senate torture report was in the making before Gruber was scheduled to testify.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 8:59 am to DosManos
quote:
Why is this report being released?
Feinstein lashing out at the CIA for hacking senate computers (among other things)
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:00 am to DosManos
The report has been ready since April, but the CIA and the committee have been haggling over what to redact and what to make available to the public.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:01 am to DosManos
quote:
Yeah, but I assume the Senate torture report was in the making before Gruber was scheduled to testify
It's been in the can for months. It could have been released anytime. It's being released today.
Oh, and the other point about the CIA creeping Feinstein's computer is icing on the cake for her.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:02 am to DosManos
We tortured a ton of people, and we should not seek to be the lowest common denominator when it comes to morals.
Is it immoral to torture people?
Do you believe that innocent people were tortured?
Do you want to live in a country where the option to torture is sanctioned? Where indefinite detetention is an option? Where trials are not expedited?
Is it immoral to torture people?
Do you believe that innocent people were tortured?
Do you want to live in a country where the option to torture is sanctioned? Where indefinite detetention is an option? Where trials are not expedited?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:02 am to DosManos
quote:
Why is this report being released?
Because Democrats are about to lose control of the Senate, so they release it now, blame Bush, and then say that the new GOP Senate REFUSED to do anything about it. It is ALL politics.
The Democratically controlled Senate knew about this from 2006 on when they gained power. That is 8 years where they did NOTHING.
Now, 1 month before giving up control to the GOP, they release this? Whatever. They are a bunch of conniving liars.
It is the same thing as Obama claiming that something has to be done about immigration, but he refused to do a single thing when he had to power to do so because he wanted to ram ObamaCare down our throats even though people didn't want it.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:02 am to udtiger
The report was prepared by Liberal Democrat committee staff members. They have a Liberal political agenda to hurt the military and
Republicans who support them. They just think that way. Hurting your political opponents is a goal of Dem's. These are Washington political bureaucrats, understand?
Republicans who support them. They just think that way. Hurting your political opponents is a goal of Dem's. These are Washington political bureaucrats, understand?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:04 am to TupeloTiger
Or it is much bigger than partisan politics and transparency and accounting for these tactics, painful as they may be, are bedrock principles of a liberal democracy- part of the same principles attacked on that September day.
The struggle with radical Islam won't be measured in years. It will be measured in decades. OBL won the day with that sucker punch, but the war is still ongoing and our actions and faithfulness to our principles still matters.
The struggle with radical Islam won't be measured in years. It will be measured in decades. OBL won the day with that sucker punch, but the war is still ongoing and our actions and faithfulness to our principles still matters.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:09 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
We tortured a ton of people,
False
quote:
Is it immoral to torture people?
Depends
quote:
Do you believe that innocent people were tortured?
No.
quote:
Do you want to live in a country where the option to torture is sanctioned?
It hasn't been "sanctioned."
quote:
Where indefinite detetention is an option?
I think they should be summarily executed upon capture, which is allowed under the Geneva Convention.
quote:
Where trials are not expedited?
See previous response.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:11 am to DosManos
quote:
Why is this report being released?
To smother the Gruber hearings. They're actually hoping for widespread reaction overseas to give the press something other than Gruber to report over the next few days.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:11 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
Or it is much bigger than partisan politics and transparency and accounting for these tactics, painful as they may be, are bedrock principles of a liberal democracy- part of the same principles attacked on that September day.
The struggle with radical Islam won't be measured in years. It will be measured in decades. OBL won the day with that sucker punch, but the war is still ongoing and our actions and faithfulness to our principles still matters.
But what was the US policy on torture pre-9/11? What was our policy on torture during all of our other major conflicts since this country's inception until 9/11?
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:12 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
Or it is much bigger than partisan politics and transparency and accounting for these tactics, painful as they may be, are bedrock principles of a liberal democracy- part of the same principles attacked on that September day.
I fundamentally agree with you, but any old time is not a good time to release any information that the intelligence committee sees fit. This is not a good time. Radical Islamist organizations recruit well with information just like this. And retaliatory attacks, if opportune, are a near certainty. The president could shite-can this, but won't. I think we all understand the need for transparency in government, but the IC exists for a reason. Many of its operations must remain undisclosed for a reason. This serves no practical or even immediate moral end. It's a side-swipe. Simple as that.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:12 am to udtiger
quote:
udtiger
How many people did we torture?
20?
30?
And it was sanctioned bc the Chief of our Nation/Military knew about it. I'd say the practicing policy of the tactics went all the way up the flag pole.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:16 am to boosiebadazz
quote:
Or it is much bigger than partisan politics and transparency and accounting for these tactics, painful as they may be, are bedrock principles of a liberal democracy
We have already gone over Abu Gharaib, waterboarding, other enhanced techniques, the conditions at Gitmo - YEARS AGO - boosie. Why this report and why now? Politics. They just got roughed up in an election and they know they'll have only scant opportunities to do anything official after January when they're in the minority.
And it does us no good as a country. This is the classic definition of "old news". We had this debate during the W. adminsitration, and a lot of these points have already been scored by the dems in the run up to 2006 and again in 2008.
You didn't hear them bitching about this when they were crowing about Obama getting Osama - (the easiest call in the history of Presidential decisions) - because they knew some of the information was from the enhanced techniques.
And, so here we are - a final, petty, petulant act by the Harry Reid Senate.
Enjoy it, brother.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:18 am to DosManos
quote:
But the president believes that it is important for us to be as transparent as we possibly can be about what exactly transpired, so we can just be clear to the American public and to people around the world that something like this should not happen again."
So in this instance, the president cares about transparency. Got it.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:21 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
We tortured a ton of people
Define "a ton"
quote:
we should not seek to be the lowest common denominator when it comes to morals.
The US already is.
quote:
Is it immoral to torture people?
Yes.
quote:
Do you believe that innocent people were tortured?
No.
quote:
Do you want to live in a country where the option to torture is sanctioned? Where indefinite detetention is an option? Where trials are not expedited?
No, but I also don't want to live in a country where babies are allowed to be cut up and vacuumed. Fix the big stuff, then the small stuff.
Posted on 12/9/14 at 9:25 am to CherryGarciaMan
Water boarding is not torture, we use it against our Navy Seals.
Just America haters like you and your Dem commie buddies perpetuate this BS myth.
Just America haters like you and your Dem commie buddies perpetuate this BS myth.
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