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re: What would North America be like today had the American Indians been left alone?
Posted on 11/28/14 at 11:38 am to cave canem
Posted on 11/28/14 at 11:38 am to cave canem
OK fine, I'll play your game. Here's a list. There's plenty to choose from. indigenous people around the world
Now, do you have anything of substance to back up your asinine claim that the Mayans and Aztecs would be the least civilized society on Earth if still around today? That's what you said remember?
Now, do you have anything of substance to back up your asinine claim that the Mayans and Aztecs would be the least civilized society on Earth if still around today? That's what you said remember?
Posted on 11/28/14 at 11:55 am to rintintin
You do understand indigenous does not mean they lag behind pre-Columbian civilization (That means before 1492) don't you. And yes I remember exactly what I typed and stand behind it. The Mayans and Aztecs were lagging centuries behind Europe Asia and Africa up to and after interaction with Europeans. There is no reason to suggest they were suddenly going to catch up with the rest of the world. After all the rest of the world was printing books, watching fireworks, developing modern medicine, and exploring the world. The North Americans had yet to discover the wheel. Please do tell what you think was going to kick off this tech explosion in the new world.
Posted on 11/28/14 at 12:09 pm to cave canem
quote:
You do understand indigenous does not mean they lag behind pre-Columbian civilization (That means before 1492) don't you.
I surely do understand that not all indigenous tribes lag behind them, but surely you understand that some indeed do.
quote:
Please do tell what you think was going to kick off this tech explosion in the new world.
Don't mistake my thinking of them not being the least civilized society on Earth, as believing they would achieve what we see in the Western world today. There's surely a middle ground, and I think in 500 years they would have advanced quite a bit.
Posted on 11/28/14 at 12:16 pm to cave canem
In order to answer, we must pretend that Europe was not a contender.
The Spanish explorers looking for Gold; the English and Portugese looking for the NW Pasage and also what is now Capetown; you eliminate these and I believe that Asia and the natives would have discovered one another and had a r'ship very similar to 17th/18th century French-Canadian Mohawks. Of course, France sent expeditions as well, but up until Napoleon, the country was basically a lost cause (losing war in Europe and colonies). North America, even without the French, would have been "conquered" somehow, but maybe not so violently? Also, diseases would have to totally be out of this picture.
I guess, in other words, take out the Scandinavian/Germanic cultures and the Spanish and the entire world would be different -- the natives, Aztecs, Incas, etc. in the 16th century would have all survived. I like to think that the Chinese would have sent explorers to the Americas (again, pretending much of Europe pretty much didn't exist) and struck a very business-like and culture-friendly bit of mutuality. I wonder how Chinese-Native chicks would have looked like?
This is actually a great question. A lot left on the table and who knows how technology would have gone?
The Spanish explorers looking for Gold; the English and Portugese looking for the NW Pasage and also what is now Capetown; you eliminate these and I believe that Asia and the natives would have discovered one another and had a r'ship very similar to 17th/18th century French-Canadian Mohawks. Of course, France sent expeditions as well, but up until Napoleon, the country was basically a lost cause (losing war in Europe and colonies). North America, even without the French, would have been "conquered" somehow, but maybe not so violently? Also, diseases would have to totally be out of this picture.
I guess, in other words, take out the Scandinavian/Germanic cultures and the Spanish and the entire world would be different -- the natives, Aztecs, Incas, etc. in the 16th century would have all survived. I like to think that the Chinese would have sent explorers to the Americas (again, pretending much of Europe pretty much didn't exist) and struck a very business-like and culture-friendly bit of mutuality. I wonder how Chinese-Native chicks would have looked like?
This is actually a great question. A lot left on the table and who knows how technology would have gone?
Posted on 11/28/14 at 12:21 pm to rintintin
quote:
Don't mistake my thinking of them not being the least civilized society on Earth, as believing they would achieve what we see in the Western world today. There's surely a middle ground, and I think in 500 years they would have advanced quite a bit.
Go back and read your statement again, you claimed that they were more advanced 500 years ago than several societies today, and that is just plain false. Now as to how much they would have advanced in the last 500 years who knows. The Pre-Columbian civilizations were not set up in a manner that fostered much innovation. They literally lived in the stone age in the 16th century, not yet discovering bronze, copper, or iron yet. By the way what peoples do you think inhabit the slums of central and south america today? How much worse would they be without western tech?
Posted on 11/28/14 at 12:55 pm to cave canem
quote:
Go back and read your statement again, you claimed that they were more advanced 500 years ago than several societies today, and that is just plain false.
It is not false. Numerous indigenous societies today could not achieve their engineering feats alone if they tried.
I'm not arguing at all that they would have achieved anything close to what we see today, simply that their level of advancement would be more than certain other societies around the world. I don't think that's an illogical or farfetched assumption, at least compared to the thought of them being literally the least civilized society on the planet, as you had said.
Posted on 11/28/14 at 1:00 pm to weagle99
If the argument is that no one outside of the American continents came over, they would have been just fine, since the were known for hunting, and were harvesters. The resources of this land is bountiful enough to never worry. They may not have had a cell phone, but they wouldn't have a bad life. Is this a "but they wouldn't have cool toys" type of argument that we are going for, or actual content, because there are reasons I unplug and get away from everything, and just enjoy the wilderness. A few years away from material needs and some bow hunting skills and I don't even know how much I would miss.
Posted on 11/28/14 at 1:25 pm to weagle99
I worked for years with an American Indian who always said that if it weren't for us STUPID white men, he would be riding his pony through a open field instead of being stuck in traffic on the I-5 freeway.
Posted on 11/29/14 at 3:25 pm to weagle99
Putin would be emperor from the Ukraine to Maine
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