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Message

re: Officer Wilson's duty firearm, a Sig Sauer P229 .40 caliber, would not fire.

Posted on 11/25/14 at 12:43 pm to
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
83933 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 12:43 pm to
Gotcha. Talk about a close call.
Posted by Mung
NorCal
Member since Aug 2007
9054 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 12:47 pm to
A. Maybe none in the chamber? Otherwise, shitty ammo.
B. Why not release this depiction of the incident immediately? Seems like it would have prevented all the bullshite while everyone waited to hear the only actual participant's story.
Posted by TIGER2
Mandeville.La
Member since Jan 2006
10487 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 12:52 pm to
Kind of sounds like suicide by cop to me.
Posted by ChatRabbit77
Baton Rouge
Member since May 2013
5860 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 12:55 pm to
I agree with bapple, slide may have been out of battery.
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 1:13 pm to
his is just FYI for those that are interested, but do not have time to review the grand jury information.

Officer Wilson fired 12 times.

Brown was hit 6 times.

From officer Wilson's first encounter with Brown to Browns death 90 seconds elapsed.
Posted by Mung
NorCal
Member since Aug 2007
9054 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 1:16 pm to
quote:


Officer Wilson fired 12 times


So check floor of truck for bad round, or there wasn't one in the chamber.
Posted by Bama and Beer
Baldwin Co, AL
Member since Oct 2010
80893 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 1:21 pm to
Heyyy oooooo
Posted by slapahoe
USA
Member since Sep 2009
7443 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 1:52 pm to
I thought some pistols have a safety feature on the end of them so that if it is pressed against something it will not fire? So, if the gun was in fact pressed into his hip it shouldnt have fired bc of this safety feature. Maybe someone else has more insight to this
Posted by Capital Cajun
Over Yonder
Member since Aug 2007
5525 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 2:10 pm to
May have been something between the hammer and firing pin as well.
Posted by TigerOnThe Hill
Springhill, LA
Member since Sep 2008
6812 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

Why not release this depiction of the incident immediately? Seems like it would have prevented all the bullshite while everyone waited to hear the only actual participant's story.

Good idea, except the "protestors" last night proved that they're NOT going to be confused by the facts. Even when confronted w/ factual testimony, they continue to instead believe the testimony that was proven to be untrue and not consistent w/ the forensics......
Posted by Meauxjeaux
98836 posts including my alters
Member since Jun 2005
39948 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

Another thing of interest, Wilson was 6'4" and 210. How fricking huge was the kid?


Reported to be 6'4" 300 lbs.

Dude looks like a lineman in the store robbery video. And he used that size to intimidate/bully the smaller clerk that was trying to stop him.
Posted by BrotherEsau
Member since Aug 2011
3503 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 2:39 pm to
reading a portion of the transcript, he says Brown grabbed the top. it then went click -click - bang - click rack- bang

I assumed the first two clicks were because Brown had the slide pulled back slightly (not sure there would be an audible click. never tried that). or maybe got his thumb webbing under the hammer.

The click after the first bang, I figured in such close quarters, it somehow jammed - maybe slide didn't cycle fully or the spent casing was prevented from ejecting by a hand, clothes etc. He then racked and cleared it.

Wilson is lucky. Why they don't release all the details, I'll never understand. What did the other witnesses say? did Brown have powder residue on his hands and clothes? What do Brown supporters think he should have done instead?
Posted by DByrd2
Fredericksburg, VA
Member since Jun 2008
8963 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

michael brown disagrees


His opinion doesn't count anymore. He is dead.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89531 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

I'd like to think the slide was slightly back when they struggled in the car.


That's my thinking - with 20+ years of experience with Sigs - I've had zero FTF due to ammo or magazine issues. I had a very short-term mainspring issue with an otherwise flawless P220 - due to a poorly finished aftermarket Hogue grip, which caused light primer strikes and roughly 2 out of 3 rounds would not fire.

I have almost this exact weapon - short external extractor and the half-height cocking serrations on the back of the slide - my P229 has no rail.

quote:

But then again, if the slide is slightly retracted on a striker-fired pistol it wouldn't discharge either.


Out of battery is out of battery, and that's what I think happened in this case.

quote:

restrike capability of the Sig


While there are more things that can go wrong with the conventional Sig FCS, this is an advantage - I'm not sure a Glock trigger will cycle if it is out of battery - but if it will, that would likely have been fatal in this case.

It is also - ever so slightly possible that it was a light primer strike that caused the initial misfire - and that could have been weapon or ammo related.
Posted by L S Usetheforce
Member since Jun 2004
22763 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

I thought some pistols have a safety feature on the end of them so that if it is pressed against something it will not fire? So, if the gun was in fact pressed into his hip it shouldnt have fired bc of this safety feature


Most definetely does.........It is in fact a safety feature get out your Sig if you own one empty it and try to pull the trigger with the slide against your hand.......it will not fire......
Posted by LSUlefty
Youngsville, LA
Member since Dec 2007
26452 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 4:07 pm to
Where are the Glock boys. Figured you'd be drooling at the mouth.
Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11891 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 4:18 pm to
quote:

Ace Midnight



Yea, I'm thinking it was out of battery and the firing pin was not struck for the first two attempted shots. Then maybe the third hit him. But if his hand was still on the gun, it may have short stroked it and caused another malfunction, hence the tap and rack the officer did.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89531 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

I'm thinking it was out of battery and the firing pin was not struck for the first two attempted shots. Then maybe the third hit him. But if his hand was still on the gun, it may have short stroked it and caused another malfunction, hence the tap and rack the officer did.


It is possible it had a mainspring problem - no question, but it would have been unlikely to function any more consistently after the rack, than before.

Could be a combination issue, too. The handling of the weapon, press against the slide and/or out of battery could result in the FTF for the first couple of "clicks" - then and a teaching point for us here:

What about that top round of your carry mag? Are you a cheapskate like Ace Midnight and shoot a bunch of ball at the range, but only shoot your carry ammo once in a blue moon (like it stays in there for years)? How many times has that top round been ejected when you clear the weapon to clean, take to the range, or just show off to jelly folks who can only afford Rugers or Glocks? 10? 30?

How much extractor wear on the rim? Will it cycle? Probably. Is there a chance the wear will result in a FTE? Yes. Do you want to bet your life on it?

That may have been an issue here, although I'm not sure if the agency reguires them to shoot and supplies their carry ammo, versus ball. I mean, they shoot a lot more than I do, so maybe this wasn't the case.

But it was/is something I think about.
This post was edited on 11/25/14 at 4:30 pm
Posted by Fat Bastard
coach, investor, gambler
Member since Mar 2009
72639 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

.40cal trash




my glock .40 does just fine.
Posted by LSUwag
Florida man
Member since Jan 2007
17319 posts
Posted on 11/25/14 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

Shoulda had a Glock.


This! My Glock 23 is an ammo eating machine.
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